Page 1-12 for starters. No flush.

Been flushed, twice. Not fun.

First, the decision was made to acquire two airlines and operate them as alter ego replacements for Delta flying. Then a contract was negotiated without stress testing its language and it failed almost immediately.

PM me and I can provide a detailed timeline.

That section is a whole nuther can of worms Bar.

I would say
1) those provisions are mainly for the company's protection.
2) they are illegal and unenforcable.
3) the thing about "signficantly increases costs" is one of those classic ALPA lawyer phrases. It is hopelssly vague, completely meaningless and again, unenforcable.

I'm sure though that ALPA would make its "best efforts" to enforce that stuff. :D ....To the extent possible.

Can you expand? How is it illegal & unenforceable? Are we saying that both the union and company are agreeing to illegal language? :confused:

That's OK, Comair's been dead for the last two years. I was asking about Delta. What happens at Delta in 2015 if the "snapshot" in December 2014 shows that DCI is way out of balance?

Does RA have to give up his 2014 Christmas bonus so you all get Jelly-of-the-Month Certificates?

Is there any penalty spelled out in the TA, or is it back to the classic "DCI is 18% over their block hour limit, so grieve it and ALPA will get a check for twenty grand."

Thanks for your analysis. We need to turn up the gain and look for places language might fail under stress.

Like you said, it would benefit management as much as us. As long as we control our interests would probably be aligned.

Just to get facts straight, Carl posted that profit sharing would be more than pay raises. The facts are that the maximum profit sharing could be reduced from the current formula is about $45 million a year. The July 1 pay raise by itself (4%) is an increase of about $80 million a year. Combine that with the Jan 1 raise and that is an increase of more than $250 million a year. There is no possible way that profit sharing could be more than the pay raises. End state pay increases are about $400 million per year. That is more than $45 million.

It does not really matter what numbers you put up, this TA is not what the pilots asked for through the survey. That much is clear. The anger that most feel is that ALPA ignored our desires in order to get a deal quick, as desired by the company. No where in the survey do I remember being asked if I would cast aside my desires for a quick deal.

That is the real problem here

The best sunset is in the current contract; here's why:

Right now, the 50s are reaching cycle limits. Comair is scrapping 50s because the cost of the high-time heavy check is more than the aircraft is worth. It's like doing a frame-up restoration on a 1982 Nissan Maxima. It may take another three or five years for SKW and 9E to catch up, but the 50s are getting old. Delta doesn't want them, they drink too much, and there is no 50-seat replacement jet on the drawing board anywhere.

In 8-10 years, the 50s will phase themselves out.

Contrast that to a fleet of EMB170s or NextGen 900s, built and delivered over the next two years. These aircraft will be flying at DCI for the next 20 years, and when they finally wear out they will be replaced with new. These jets will play a factor in the next 3 or 4 DALPA contract cycles.

So which is the better sunset?

• 300+ 50-seaters wearing out over the next 8-10 years with no replacement, or
• Parking 180 50-seaters in the next three years, and allowing 70 brand new EMB170/CRJ900 DC-9 replacement jets to take their place?

I agree there should be language re: GTF before this technology becomes a game-changer.

Here's what I actually posted about pay in a very lengthy post:

The facts are that profit sharing is by its nature indexed for both inflation and the destruction of the US dollar...pay raises are not. Further, this TA will undoubtedly result in stagnation or even backward movement while the airline refleets with smaller and lower paying aircraft with equivalent seat capacity. Combine these factors, and I stand by my statement that there's a strong possibility that with Delta's upcoming massive profits, the pay raises might well be a wash compared to accepting the totality of this TA.

And since you're a senior member of our MEC bureaucracy, I'll even show you how you can prove me wrong. Return this TA to the company with only 2 instructions for change...only these 2:

1. Keep our current cap of 255 over 50 seat RJ's, and
2. Keep our current percentage of profit sharing.

You just watch how fast the company says: "You know what, we're not in such a hurry now after all."

Carl