Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

You are comfortable with they way DCI aircraft are getting bigger and bigger.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

AirTrans fragmentation language.

NOTHING in there about furloughs or replacement aircraft.

Plain and simple. If a bulk of the aircraft leave, their management negotiates a shot of them following the aircraft.

This is NOT related to the TA. The 717s are coming if we vote this thing up or down, since that's the only way management gets more 76 seaters.

"F. Acquisition of Disposition of Assets 1. In the event of a Substantial Asset Sale, as defi ned hereunder, the Company agrees that it will undertake its best and all commercially reasonable efforts to require the air carrier purchaser to offer employ-ment to that number of pilots of the AirTran Pilots' Master Seniority List whose identity shall be determined consistent with the seniority provisions they then enjoy, which number of pilots entitled to such employment offer shall be the average monthly pilot staffi ng actually utilized in the operation of the transferred assets over the twelve (12) months prior to the employment offers and to negotiate, and to arbi-trate under Allegheny-Mohawk Section 13 any differences regarding the identity or number of transferring pilots that may arise with the air carrier purchaser and the integrate the two (2) pilot groups in ac-cordance with ALPA Merger Policy if applicable or otherwise under Sections 3 and 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provi-sions (using the applicable procedures in Paragraph E.2., above). For the purposes of this provision, a “Substantial Asset Sale” means the sale and/or assignment in a single transaction or a series of related transactions over a twelve (12) month period to a certifi cated air car-rier, other than in the ordinary course of business, of that number of aircraft that, net of asset purchases or acquisitions, over the twelve (12) months prior to the effective date of the transaction(s) produce more than thirty (30) percent of scheduled block hours. a. At such time that a transaction amounting to a Substantial As-set Sale is being fi nalized, the Company shall, on a confi dential basis, verbally notify the Association of any such Substantial Asset Sale prior to its being fi nalized (when possible at least ten (10) days prior to its being fi nalized), and the Company will solicit the recommendations of the Association.

Originally Posted by Pro Fessional

Does this language still apply, or has it been superseded by the joint CBA with SWAPA?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

This TA will be passed or failed and probably re taed voted in again prior to anything with a new union. That is good too because we are looking at a few years of chaos as they try to find which way is up.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge

It's a little of both. 88 717's minums 17 DC-9's is a net positive.

The ratios are more to protect us in the future from mainline shrinking while DCI grows, like happened in the past.

We can't force management into growth, but we can (through the ratio AND the JV language) force them to use us if they do.

Hope that helps.

Check out the ratio table in Section 1.D (I think) that shows the math.

Originally Posted by bigbusdriver

I'm not sure that's right either. I sat through about half of the scope discussion in SLC yesterday. They said RA does not need us to make this deal, he would like us to make this deal. The 717s ONLY come if the deal is signed because he's moving DCI lift to mainline and he can't do it without us. The last of the MD-90 will replace the DC-9. The B-737-900 order (100) will trigger the current 76 seat clause no matter what. The 717 is on top of that. The 50 is replaced by the 76 which is replace by the 717. That is the only way the deal gets done and the only way to move the capacity from DCI to mainline without disrupting service. If RA can not get rind of the 50 at the speed he wants then no 717 no matter what. They said that he would not get the 717 if we did not sign the deal because the long term maintenance plan for the 50 means that if they do the heavy check coming up that they must stay in the fleet 5-6 years. He will either spend the money on the 717 or on the maintenance but not both. Someone else had to have passed through SLC when these guys were talking to see if I have that right. They also said that the only force majure event we had was 9/11 and only applied to the furlough and that the pilots voted on every subsequant change to block hours in LOA 46 and later. The language in section 1 is as strong as the pilot's will. I don't remember block hour ratios going then but I know they didn't go during 9-11. They made a strong case for this language being very difficult to void unless the pilots vote it away. Everything they said made sense and I'm in full agreement that this moves DCI time to DL and is seat positive to DL voodoo forum math be damned.

Originally Posted by bigbusdriver

I'm not sure that's right either. I sat through about half of the scope discussion in SLC yesterday. They said RA does not need us to make this deal, he would like us to make this deal. The 717s ONLY come if the deal is signed because he's moving DCI lift to mainline and he can't do it without us. The last of the MD-90 will replace the DC-9. The B-737-900 order (100) will trigger the current 76 seat clause no matter what. The 717 is on top of that. The 50 is replaced by the 76 which is replace by the 717. That is the only way the deal gets done and the only way to move the capacity from DCI to mainline without disrupting service. If RA can not get rind of the 50 at the speed he wants then no 717 no matter what. They said that he would not get the 717 if we did not sign the deal because the long term maintenance plan for the 50 means that if they do the heavy check coming up that they must stay in the fleet 5-6 years. He will either spend the money on the 717 or on the maintenance but not both. Someone else had to have passed through SLC when these guys were talking to see if I have that right. They also said that the only force majure event we had was 9/11 and only applied to the furlough and that the pilots voted on every subsequant change to block hours in LOA 46 and later. The language in section 1 is as strong as the pilot's will. I don't remember block hour ratios going then but I know they didn't go during 9-11. They made a strong case for this language being very difficult to void unless the pilots vote it away. Everything they said made sense and I'm in full agreement that this moves DCI time to DL and is seat positive to DL voodoo forum math be damned.