Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1198010)

What I mean is that in the final stages of negotiations, we weren't arguing about $100 million or $50 million, we were arguing about a few million or a 1/5% raise. Imagine having 350 different turns in a house negotiation. Those last ten turns you are arguing about the drapes and the ceiling fan, not whether the price of the house is going to be $500,000 or $400,000.

I understand for pilots, they see the deal for the first time and they may assume it is the first offer. If you take the first offer then maybe there is another 10 or 15% left on the table. After the 350th offer, there is not 10 or 15% left on the table, there are crumbs. You pick up whatever crumbs you have and then go find out if the MEC and the pilots want to take the deal.

Take it or leave it, that's your choice. But don't reject it thinking there are anything else but crumbs left on the table. Richard Anderson is a good boss but he is a very hard man. If you haven't met him you will find that out very quickly when you do. If someone thinks he will start crying and fork over gobs of money with a rejected TA, then you have never met him. He has already formulated the plan to follow if there is no deal and he will execute that plan. From his viewpoint, Delta pilots already cost more per block hour than any other pilot group so he is more than ready to wait for some other pilot group to raise that bar.

He views his major competition as United. Right now Delta pilots make about $40,000 to $50,000 more than they do and have better work rules and worse productivity. That is how he views us. If we can add value to Delta then we will be rewarded. Don't add value and there is no reason to reward us. That is capitalism at its most raw form.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1198009)

Don't the lawyers and admin look at these emails before they are sent Would they have caught an error?

He may be referring to what Mike C stated in a recent article that this is cost neutral for the company. I can see it being that way or slightly positive for them. They potentially can save a ton of money on this RJ swap.

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1198012)

Muy bueno. Reserves will get mauled, IMO.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1198010)

What I mean is that in the final stages of negotiations, we weren't arguing about $100 million or $50 million, we were arguing about a few million or a 1/5% raise. Imagine having 350 different turns in a house negotiation. Those last ten turns you are arguing about the drapes and the ceiling fan, not whether the price of the house is going to be $500,000 or $400,000.

I understand for pilots, they see the deal for the first time and they may assume it is the first offer. If you take the first offer then maybe there is another 10 or 15% left on the table. After the 350th offer, there is not 10 or 15% left on the table, there are crumbs. You pick up whatever crumbs you have and then go find out if the MEC and the pilots want to take the deal.

Take it or leave it, that's your choice. But don't reject it thinking there are anything else but crumbs left on the table. Richard Anderson is a good boss but he is a very hard man. If you haven't met him you will find that out very quickly when you do. If someone thinks he will start crying and fork over gobs of money with a rejected TA, then you have never met him. He has already formulated the plan to follow if there is no deal and he will execute that plan. From his viewpoint, Delta pilots already cost more per block hour than any other pilot group so he is more than ready to wait for some other pilot group to raise that bar.

He views his major competition as United. Right now Delta pilots make about $40,000 to $50,000 more than they do and have better work rules and worse productivity. That is how he views us. If we can add value to Delta then we will be rewarded. Don't add value and there is no reason to reward us. That is capitalism at its most raw form.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1198004)

...Now, we have a TA that is subject to MEMRAT. We can turn it down, and it puts pressure of the company to walk away from a comprehensive TA that solves a lot of issues for them, or they can fix about 30 or so line items and this can be a great product that all can be proud of. Its their decision, but it would have to be turned down and no one denies that there is risk with that...

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1198022)

ALPA is independence plus. The elected reps can say anything they want to say. I know what Mike Campbell said and I know what was costed.

I worked on Letter 46 also. Here is a big secret, even though everyone said it saved $1 billion, we never got to $1 billion. Sometimes it sounds better to say stuff like that.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1198010)

What I mean is that in the final stages of negotiations, we weren't arguing about $100 million or $50 million, we were arguing about a few million or a 1/5% raise. Imagine having 350 different turns in a house negotiation. Those last ten turns you are arguing about the drapes and the ceiling fan, not whether the price of the house is going to be $500,000 or $400,000.

I understand for pilots, they see the deal for the first time and they may assume it is the first offer. If you take the first offer then maybe there is another 10 or 15% left on the table. After the 350th offer, there is not 10 or 15% left on the table, there are crumbs. You pick up whatever crumbs you have and then go find out if the MEC and the pilots want to take the deal.

Take it or leave it, that's your choice. But don't reject it thinking there are anything else but crumbs left on the table. Richard Anderson is a good boss but he is a very hard man. If you haven't met him you will find that out very quickly when you do. If someone thinks he will start crying and fork over gobs of money with a rejected TA, then you have never met him. He has already formulated the plan to follow if there is no deal and he will execute that plan. From his viewpoint, Delta pilots already cost more per block hour than any other pilot group so he is more than ready to wait for some other pilot group to raise that bar.

He views his major competition as United. Right now Delta pilots make about $40,000 to $50,000 more than they do and have better work rules and worse productivity. That is how he views us. If we can add value to Delta then we will be rewarded. Don't add value and there is no reason to reward us. That is capitalism at its most raw form.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1198028)

Maybe, but wrt to LOA 46, the push for this group was after the bloodshed they created Simplifares. The savings went out the door. If I recall that was a 3bln dollar fumble

As for what the actual savings were, its water under, over or through the dam, the savings here or costing of C2012 is what matters. I would love to see the math of this costing the company over a billion bucks in three years. I can see that metric since the reps are saying we did not get a bargining credit for the RJ lease return savings.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1198020)

If it is as you state, then why, given that the reps have clearly stated that this prodct is below direction for a expedited proccess and the surveys did the nc not come back for final direction prior to TAing the deal. From your post it sounds like the negotiations were well below direction for some time without futher direction via special meeting.

Is there an issue here, or are all of these reps wrong? No flame just a serious question given what is coming out.