Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1198082)

You haven't been keeping up. The airtran pilots arent assimilated until jan 2015. Today, they are still alpa represented.

IOW the Airtran pilots are NOT SWA pilots yet.

Oh, I've been keeping up. Put on your logic hat... It makes no sense to negotiate an aircraft lease swap then suddenly dump the pilots on the receiver (after telling everybody you weren't). Way too much risk in that one. Delta doesn't want the pilots, do they? Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198093)

Ahh, I think I get it now.

The DCI refleeting option is a less expensive option than eating the sunk costs, engine maintenance and aircraft overhaul expense associated with management's option of going without us. That was the opportunity that created this deal. Delta will invest in DCI one way or another, the question is whether or not Delta pilots will benefit from that investment.

Is that what you're looking for?

That resonates! Yes :)

Edited my post out of appreciation for yours.

Could you elaborate on how the 717 works for Delta when it does not work for Southwest ?

How great a threat should / would the C Series be to our 717 fleet ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitt767 (Post 1198094)

My logic hat is on.

I think it would be cheaper for DAL to get the planes with the pilots.:confused:

If you can provide an official defensible source that has officially stated that the 717 pilots are not coming with the planes, I'm all ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1198097)

Seriously? Cheaper with the pilots? How so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198066)

Carl, if DCI costs were to decrease by $1Billion and DL mainline pilot costs were to increase by $1Billion solely due to our new PWA, it would be cost neutral...to Delta. The Delta pilots would be $1Billion ahead.

You can't handle the truth...;)

Though your static and detached logic is accurate, it doesn't tell the story at all. The point is that all savings due to OUR CONTRACT should be apportioned in some way to the pilots. The ONLY thing that matters (if you're behaving like a union) is what the cost will be to the company. If they've found a way to give us a few increases that cost them nothing overall, that's good for them...but it's awful and weak if that's ALL we accept. That by definition means we left money on the table because not even management expects us to sign off on something cost neutral to them. This is exactlly what the DTW Chairman is saying and it is not arguable.

Our TA is COST NEUTRAL to Delta Air Lines.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1198045)

What proves they can't operate C Series jets under the Skyteam banner?

Nothing. Brian Bedford is planning on doing just that.

Quote:

[The C-Series]...could fit into a global alliance as (a low-cost carrier) component to a broader North American strategy for a SkyTeam or Star or one world,"
"I still think that what we're going to see is a worldview where a low-cost carrier can participate in domestic alliances in 2015, and that there'll be a need for that product here," he said.

Even better, the TA gives Republic a specific exemption to perform large jet flying by exempting Chautaqua and Shuttle America (wholly owned subsidiaries of Republic) to be exempt from the improved holding company language:

Quote:

The exemption [from complying with the intent of the PWA] will apply to Chautauqua Airlines and to Shuttle America Corporation even if an affiliate of either such carrier operates aircraft other than permitted aircraft types that do not otherwise meet the requirements of Section 1 D. 2.

Summary:

Our PWA has language to prohibit a DCI carrier to fly large jets.
Republic aquires Frontier and operates A320s, orders the C-Series.
Many Delta pilot call their reps and say it violates the PWA.
The DALPA lawyer responds that the PWA language isn't enforceable as written.
My rep promises to make sure the next contract is better.
New language in TA prohibits operations like Republic from operating larger jets.
Exemption added to TA specifically permits Republic (Chautaqua, Shuttle America) to operate large jets contrary to news language.

Really? This alone in context of BBs plans should be a NO vote!

Cheers
George

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitt767 (Post 1198099)

Seriously? Cheaper with the pilots? How so?

zero training cost.

The rest of the cost is integration angst...no money changes hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1198101)

Nothing. Brian Bedford is planning on doing just that.

Even better, the TA gives Republic a specific exemption to perform the above mentioned flying by permitting Chautaqua (wholly owned subsidiary of Republic) to do exactly that:

Summary:

Our PWA has language to prohibit a DCI carrier to fly large jets.
Republic aquires Frontier and operates A320s, orders the C-Series.
Many Delta pilot call their reps and say it violates the PWA.
The DALPA lawyer responds that the PWA language isn't enforceable as written.
My rep promises to make sure the next contract is better.
New language in TA prohibits operations like Republic from operating larger jets.
Exemption added to TA specifically permits Republic (Chautaqua, Shuttle America) to operate large jets contrary to news language.

Really? This alone in context of BBs plans should be a NO vote!

Cheers
George

True Dat!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitt767 (Post 1198074)

I get what you are saying, now. Good point. However, for the company to enter in an agreement with LUV and not have a solid plan (that does not include their pilots), would be really, really stupid. We'd have huge grounds for a big lawsuit. LUV (according the the AT FO we had on the JS yesterday) said that they are not furloughing and they will assimilate 717 pilot into LUV (I don't know if I'd trust LUV on that). Interesting point #29. Ultimately, I don't think it is an issue.

We'd absolutely have NO grounds for a lawsuit. None. It would be dismissed in a summary judgment. AirTran pilots are technically still ALPA pilots. Even if they weren't, your lawsuit would have zero chance.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1198095)

How great a threat should / would the C Series be to our 717 fleet ?

lengthy post above and See here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_1...ier-jet-plans/

Cheers
George