You're right Whitt, I should have added the caveat "to the extent that we're allowing it to effect our decision."

I'm not supporting a no vote based on any prediction of next year's presidential election and the resultant NMB memebership.

DALPA is putting forward the argument that I should vote YES at least partly based on their prediction of future NMB behavior, behavior which is gleaned from an analysis that has intentionally introduced selection bias, just like the pay increase chart from 2008-2015. As they are putting forward this argument, it is appropriate to analyze its merits. Have ALPA's NMB analyses included the fact that the last major airline strike was approved and executed under a second term democrat?

I'm voting no because this agreement surrenders 70 large regional jets, the work rules do not appreciably improve my quality of life, and the compensation falls well below the dollar amount for which I'm willing to be gone half or more of each month.

Agreed. I would however add that it is foolish to vote yes based on fear, as you have permanently signaled your unwillingness to fight for anything more than what is given.

Engineless 747 Attempts Takeoff ...

Carl??

George, that is a very compelling argument. I want slow or Alfa to prove it wrong.

If NewK was the FO, they'd have ... :D

Is there any part of this TA where we as pilots score a flat out WIN without giving part of it away somewhere else?

All right, scambo1. Here's your chance as this one can be determined with absolute certainty. Care to make a $100 wager that ATN pilots do NOT come with those 717s? Yes or No? I'll even give you 2-1 odds on this one.

Ok, so how would that happen?

- We get the planes and the pilots and they majically appear on our Seniority list
- They are fenced infinitely so that nobody ever can fly the 717's except the AT pilots (zero training cost)
- They fly using AT Rules (it would cost money to train them to use our FOM, etc)
- They keep the ugly blue/green paint and the giant "a". (it would cost money to paint the aircraft)
- the FAA lets us do this without a separate operating certificate
- blah, blah, blah

I can prove to you that the Sun will rise tomorrow, but I have no legal documents that say that it will happen

I was going to say, CARL don't need no stinkin' engines! :eek:

I just want to say I love the information age. This will be the first contract in history vetted under the watchful eyes of 12,000 plus pilots using google to refresh everyone's memory of who is intending to do what, what past leaders said/mistakes made.

Also using smart phones, ipads, laptops and home computers. The union (who very well may have been duped themselves with slick talking Mr. Campbell) can't say things without having it fact checked in almost real time. The phonies that continue to sell a leaky contract as it is being exposed to be should be ashamed of themselves.

The concern is not the likeliness of it but that everyone is silent on the issue.