It's in there...

Exception for up to nine aircraft operated under a prorate agreement with Chautauqua Airlines or Shuttle America, seating capacity up to 44 seats and less than 65,000 lbs.

This may be ultimately correct. A lot will depend on the work rules effect. By keeping the pay raises very modest, the company keeps the pilots hungry. There may be a lot of reserves going for the +15. Who knows?

In any event, the block hour ratios are figured for the first time in
July, 2014. It will be over two years from now before those ratios are used for anything. The company doesn't even need to think about them until then.

Denny, Keep in mind that jobs given up to work rules tend to be permanent. Jobs gained via a early retirement are temporary. If 300 pilots retire early and on average they would have retired in the next 12 months anyway you gain is over a very small time frame. The 300 jobs lost to work rules stay gone. The ER program is not a offset to work rule changes.

Just a very simple question, not intended to be flamebait. Why is all the notepad handing out is only talking what this TA is able to achieve, but never talks about things that the survey represented? Every notepad thus far ends with the sentence, "we urge you to vote YES to ratifying this TA". When i talked to my reps, never have they imply what I should vote.

I am the kind of person when you only give me the 100 good things about a product, makes me want to delve deeper to find out what is the true intention and the 101 bad things in what they are trying to sell to me.

Over time, I see your point. I think it would be at least a couple years vice 12 months for that 300 to retire (my speculation) and by then we would be in negotiations again. Who knows maybe we would negotiate another early retirement!!:)

Regardless, I just wanted to point out something positive that, for the duration of the TA, would probably offset the work rule changes. How's that? Closer?:)

Denny

(Gawd, I cannot believe I'm defending this as much as I am. Must be in my DNA to argue.......Thanks Dad!:rolleyes: {I do mean my real father!})

Denny

That's exactly what I did.

The sales line at the end of the NNC's is in poor taste.

Don't have to. Simply require the pilots flying them to be "Delta Pilots." Let 'em fly under their current contract until they have the seniority to bid mainline.

We're doing everything but that... flow throughs, flow backs, pref hiring. Pretty minor tweak to say the guys flying those airplanes are Delta pilots.

You are absolutely correct. It's just the characterization of these ratios and what they do that is incorrect. And it is important to point out that the ratios represent a minimum "safety net." there is nothing to prevent Delta from adding more mainline flying.

I do think its important to put into real prespective what realistic gains are achievable with the ratios and I'm afraid expectations are being set up such that the final ratio should we ever need it falls well below what pilots expected.

Most likely DCI will see a reduction in block hours (my rep hinted at that). That means the actual mainline block hour gain gain will be less than what the ratio increase from 1.19 to 1.56 would suggest.

Easy example:

100 DBH (1)
119 MBH (1.19)
Ratio 1.19 MBH to 1 DBH (this is where we are right now)

reduce DCI by 25%
80 DBH (1)
117 MBH (1.56)

So if we add 70 more 76-set jets at DCI and reduce their block-hours by 25%, the minimum mainline block-hours required will be nearly 2% less than we have today.
Because we have a ratio, a higher reduction in DCI block hours results in a lower baseline for mainline.

I'll leave it up to each individual to define "significant."

Cheers
George

Actually ran those numbers some years ago. Using year 2000 hiring demographics and Contract 96 it seems the numbers were about 1.7 to 2 million per job for those already on the property and around $4 million (the value of a career) for those not on the property.

At the time, that model included stove pipe assumptions and straight seniority order staffing ....

With this TA, that model would show a gain (as there is any time mainline has more jobs).

The reserves can't "go for it" because it isn't optional like it should be!