Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

I think it might get worse. One guy said today to a rep, "Show me one survey that said to get a contract in an expedited manner." It seems even most "yes" voters are not doing it because they like the TA. They are doing it based on the unknown of turning it down.

Carl Spackler

05-28-2012 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1199483)

In italics:
Not sure if it is a true reduction. Best case I see a mainline jet count like we did at SOC. If I am wrong, show me the work. With the work rule changes, we still would have less pilots and less pilots per seat.

In the bold:
Ratios are a funny thing, and the higher ratios at the end are a result of DCI being shrunk with 50's being parked.

I see this whole part of the PWA as a protection if we shrink, not a guarantee to grow. We hit the ratios with the known aircraft retirements and deliveries at mainline (possible sans the 717) and the retirements at DCI. The catch 22 is the non-compliance provision. It states "anything beyond Delta's control." Well we would generally shrink from a bad economy or a black swan event, and aren't those our of DAL's control? Its a lot more vague than force majure.

Yes it certainly is.

Carl

Carl Spackler

05-28-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1199489)

You think all those airplanes are sitting in a garage somewhere waiting to be flown over to the Delta paint hangar? It will take a little time to get them all in service. The 717s aren't even supposed to be here for a few months, and then only a trickle, but they have to be ESTABLISHED before they can take delivery of the RJs... Read the definition of "Fleet" in section 1.

How do you think an arbitrator will define the word "Established".

Carl

bigdaddie

05-28-2012 04:51 PM

So I read through the Counsel 16 (LAX) "please vote yes" letter and the NNP 12-05. This is what struck me:

"Codeshare
The TA improves the labor dispute language with our international flying partners and tightens the codeshare restrictions on each. Codeshare restrictions with our international partners are tightened from 50% to 40% of Delta booked passengers. Codeshare restrictions on the Alaska codeshare are tightened as well, from 50% to 35% of Delta booked passengers, with the exception of SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL, which remain at 50%. Alaska SEA-LAX flights are exempt from hub-to-hub flying ratio calculations."

Thank you LAX pilots for allowing Alaska to continue to do all of our west coast flying. Yea, this agreement will allow you FOs to upgrade in the 717, but do it somewhere else other than LAX...

I'm still a solid NO!

BD

Kargo

05-28-2012 04:59 PM

88 life span

Mr. 80kts thanks for the info, good to know.

In atl's crew room listening to the reps talk to the gang, a lot of very unhappy folks.

Carl Spackler

05-28-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1199556)

My guess is that they are preparing for plan B in the event the TA does not pass... Those airplanes are gonna be deployed somewhere. BTW, where did you find this article? I had read it somewhere, and I could not find it again.

Alfaromeo seems to indicate our MEC has no plan B in the event we vote this down. He's said a number of times: 'you better have another plan to get us back to the table if you vote NO on this'.

Could this be one of the reasons all MEC communications end with: "We urge everyone to vote YES on this TA.

Carl

rvr350

05-28-2012 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargo (Post 1199664)

Mr. 80kts thanks for the info, good to know.

In atl's crew room listening to the reps talk to the gang, a lot of very unhappy folks.

That's your democracy at work... Luckily most of the folks had to go thru TSA to get to the crew room, or else...:D

Carl Spackler

05-28-2012 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLpilot (Post 1199623)

It was pretty ugly in the crew lounge today in atlanta. One of the guys was on the phone calling for backup.

How can this many highly educated line pilots just not get it. Slowplay? Alfaromeo? Tsquare?

Carl

pilotc90a

05-28-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLpilot (Post 1199649)

I know of several who plan on voting yes for the early out package. One told me that he could care less what was in the rest of the TA.

Pilot unity trumped by undivided self-interest. I talked to one other, who said he is voting no, because the raise wasn't large enough. When I queried him further, he said that if the 12.8% was day one it would have been a shoe in for him... I wanted to ask him what the least amount of money he would take to sell me out... but I risked a coronary so I walked away.

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