Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
Sailing, so going from near 10,000 pre chapter 11 DAL S pilots down to 7000 has nothing to do with it???????
Some of that job loss was scope. We actually peaked at 10300 pilots. Most of the job loss was work rules. The average pilot is now flying 25% more block hours then prior to 2001. The math is easy. Thats over 2500 jobs lost to work rules. If we brought back the work rules the jobs would come back also.
07-14-2009, 10:07 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Reroute
At DAL we were told by ALPA that using modest assumptions the allocation of the $650 note, in conjunction with the MPPP rollover and PBGC benefits made up for 100% of the qualified losses due to the DB plan termination. Additionally, the senior pilots, who took the lions share of the $650M note, also enjoyed the lion's share of the the $2.1B claim.
So your statement that the senior pilots have suffered the most must be tempered by the fact that the senior pilots received the most in claims and notes.
The senior pilots also cashed in on a larger chunk of the equity distribution due to the merger.
I've yet to see a note or claim model that addressed the outsourcing of 153 mainline aircraft and the captains' positions lost due to the outsourcing of the 76 seat mainline jet. Perhaps because some on the MEC don't really consider that a big concession, which might be part of the problem.
So your statement that the senior pilots have suffered the most must be tempered by the fact that the senior pilots received the most in claims and notes.
The senior pilots also cashed in on a larger chunk of the equity distribution due to the merger.
I've yet to see a note or claim model that addressed the outsourcing of 153 mainline aircraft and the captains' positions lost due to the outsourcing of the 76 seat mainline jet. Perhaps because some on the MEC don't really consider that a big concession, which might be part of the problem.
The retirement did not end up like your statement. There are a couple of key points. Senior pilots had both qualified and unqualified money. Both were earned and accrued pensions. The unqualified was simply given up. Huge loss for senior pilots. Junior to mid level pilots had no unqualified money. The second huge and very key point is the assumptions were based on no tax liability on the distributions. As we all know that did not work out. I lost 40% upfront. The modest earnings assumptions you mention were 7% per year tell age 60 and then 5% per year after. With the current market performance pilots will now need returns in the 15 to 18 percent range to compensate for the last 3 years and tax losses. To put it all in direct perspective I just completed a long financial look at my retirement program by two professionals. Both arrrived at about the same number. I had a total frozen benefit of around 110,000 a year for qualified and unqualified money. They told me that if I retire at 60 and earn 6 percent per year going forward to age 60 my loss is about 1,000,000 dollars from the first advisor and 1,100,000 from the second. That is cash I need to generate in the next 8 years above and beyond the current DC plan. I doubt that the junior portion of the list will want to give me 1,100,000 from the next contract.
One last point on retirement. These numbers are off the frozen benefit. The loss is much higher if you figure it off the actual retirement plan.
07-14-2009, 10:19 AM
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Anybody else think this is just funnier than all heck?
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07-14-2009, 10:40 AM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Right Seater!!
Posts: 109
so is there still an announcement tomorrow?? the perp closes at midnight tonight right?? latest totals?? last i saw was like 178 i think
07-14-2009, 10:42 AM
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Position: LAX 350 A
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deleted.....
Last edited by bigdaddie; 07-14-2009 at 11:29 AM.
07-14-2009, 10:45 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
Tell those that matter most!
Originally Posted by slowplay
Here's a prime example of the "fair and balanced" viewpoint I discussed earlier. I've been a member for 18 months, thanks. Btw, there's two threads on the MEC board on this topic, with very few active posters. The poliitcs section is way more active. Is that some of the "scope fatigue" you write about later?
Why do you come here and foment disunity rather than man up and take it where business can actually get done?
You continue to misrepresent my position and try and put words on paper that I didn't say. When a different point of view is presented to you, you talk of "thought police." You don't rebutt the substance...hmmm.
Hey, I get it. You're not happy. Your issue isn't getting the public attention that you believe it deserves. Yet you fail to acknowledge any of the work that was done to address your issue...
Why don't you try joining us there with some intellectually honest argument?
I hope my participation here helps you sharpen those arguments. (the last part is serious).
Why do you come here and foment disunity rather than man up and take it where business can actually get done?You continue to misrepresent my position and try and put words on paper that I didn't say. When a different point of view is presented to you, you talk of "thought police." You don't rebutt the substance...hmmm.
Hey, I get it. You're not happy. Your issue isn't getting the public attention that you believe it deserves. Yet you fail to acknowledge any of the work that was done to address your issue...
Why don't you try joining us there with some intellectually honest argument?
I hope my participation here helps you sharpen those arguments. (the last part is serious).
I hope you are this vocal to the powers that be so things can start to change.
I support most everything each of you says but don't have the debating abilities to spread the info to others. I wish I could argue the same points with as much conviction to those that I fly with and the ALPA reps that CAN make a change.
I encourage all of you to continue to vocalize your beliefs on here and in other locations that would get the right people listening and learning.
If you have done this Thank You and please continue......
Cheers
07-14-2009, 10:55 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
Interesting comments re: Babbit. Word is he will be addressing the MEC this week. Hope we get a transcript.
07-14-2009, 11:14 AM
#WEDAT
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: 717a
Posts: 286
Scope vs. The Red Dress
Forget scope. We need to get RDQ and NRDQ standards set and codified in the next contract. I will gladly outsource more flying if it means more RDQ F/As!!
07-14-2009, 11:34 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 514
God Forbid they ever start enforcing weight standards on Pilots....have some of you folks looked at yourself in the mirror lately?
I am amused that the same folks here who complain about wearing the hat, shove it in their rollaboards, don't know how to tuck in their shirt, and waltz around the airport with their ties loosened at half mast suddenly want to become the Uniform Police for the Flight Attendants.
I am amused that the same folks here who complain about wearing the hat, shove it in their rollaboards, don't know how to tuck in their shirt, and waltz around the airport with their ties loosened at half mast suddenly want to become the Uniform Police for the Flight Attendants.
07-14-2009, 11:56 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 840
Is there going to be an announcement tomorrow or was all the talk just BS and pie in the sky thinking?
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