Originally Posted by johnso29

Another unknown is that if they invest in the 50 seaters, will they extend the contracts longer?

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Well, the one thing about the 50 seaters is they're deemed uneconomical because of fuel cost / passengers.

That will still be the problem. As in they're not worth the maintenance cost.

Imho, I think it's a ruse.

Originally Posted by Delta1067

and we will be so much better off wasting away in section 6 ville for 2 years? Current PWA for 2 more years, no thanks.

Originally Posted by gloopy

Very true during the runup to BK and the initial year or so into it. Even while on the way out of BK though, DL started to fight back hard and bloodies AT's nose in ATL pretty badly. AT was forced to scramble into markets DL didn't care as much about as well as into direct competition with SWA instead. I think AT pulled back 20% or so from their ATL peak during the hey days you mentioned. They do advertise in certain markets quite well. So does SWA, JB, NK and others. We need to learn sometimes you have to spend money to make money. Keep Climbing is cool, but we need to get way more agressive with our marketing everywhere the way we're finally starting to in NYC.

Despite the previous reductions, post merger (AT/SW) they've already gone from 250ish to 175ish flights a day in ATL. This round of fare wars is not a signal of their over all strength particularly in that market. They are trying to maintain an even lower level of relevancy in the major market they just bought their way into. The only remaining variable that needs to be sovled for is DL's ongoing resolve to win long term versus bowing down to the short term quarterly result monger crackberry day traders analcysts. We can win this battle easilly, but we'll have to pay today to win tomorrow. Do the ones we have at the helm have that mentality or are they quarterly results by any means necessary B school reactionaries? Time will tell.

The canaries in the coal mine to see if we ever decide to get serious about investing in long term success (at least domestically) are LA/SEA (which would be taken care of by default in an AS merger) and more difinitively BOS. The way DL rolled over and handed one of the best and well traveled O&D revenue markets for its size anywhere and flat out gave it to start up to rule without question (notwithstanding one brief last hurrah with 50 seat RJ's and small turboprops just prior to the massive marketshare cull and giveaway) remains a textbook case of bad airline management. The excuse then was emergency survival at any cost, but today sitting on a massive, radically underutilized terminal while an ULCC sleeps with your hot ex girlfriend with the shades open because they know you are watching is inexcusable and symptomatic of the unsustainability of perpetually shrinking to profitability.

At some point we will hit the breaking point and it will either be "fight's on!" or we'll watch the roaring fireplace go dark while we huddle on the bare floor in an empty house.

Originally Posted by DAL73n

All you're doing is pushing Section 6 ville back two years. We will live under this contract until 2017 because in 2015 there is nothing the company wants bad enough to start early so we can suck it up now (my preference) or suck it up later. I'll take my chances with this contract and no ALV+2 (mandatory additional work), no ALV +15, Reserve Guarantee +2 (more work), current profit sharing (makes up for some of the lost pay), no sick verification program, 255 large profitable RJs (with no NEW state of the art (WiFi, IFE, First class in all) and let the company live with however many 50s they want. All we're going to do is push the pain down the road and it will be even harder later to move the line/bar.

Originally Posted by Roadkill

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^

I've read the TA and current PWA several times. Every time someone brings up a negative scenario of what the company COULD do, they all seem to me to be intelligent possibilities and LIKELY to happen since they're allowed. And yet, I keep reading again and again by Bill Lumberg and (I'm surprised) Johnso that these are far-fetched, "unlikely", or a mis-reading. Sorry, I absolutely disagree, and I can read a contract equally as well as you if not better. Delta is LIKELY to take it right to whatever line is allowed, and LIKELY to maximize what they've already shown they want, 70+ seaters, and LIKELY to park the 50seat as they've already said they desire and have been doing. They are LIKELY to use the work-rule changes they've asked for, and the ALV increase, and the reserve +15. You don't bargain for something that's not valuable to you, and that is what they bargained for. Come on Bill and Johnso, stop being so blindly optimistic and looking through naively rose-colored glasses! Analyze the changes from a worst-case scenario, not some hopeful "I just can't imagine the company doing THAT" mentality.

Vote No. Don't give up work rules and scope that will never come back. Heck I probably have 3-4years flying left before I pull the plug, and I wouldn't vote yes for this TA even with 40% pay increase. Don't be the guys that dropped the baton...