Objection, irrelevant.

Of course we can't ever be cheaper than them for 76 seat lift. We can't ever be cheaper than them for B717, MD88, A320 or 777 lift.

But so what?

The only reason we're having this discussion is because we allow management the ability to outsource a limited but ever increasing amount of that lift, previous hard caps notwithstanding. The real question is despite the outsource providers being able to operate anything and everything cheaper than us, always and forever, can we successfully operate a DC-9-10 sized aircraft at mainline?

Obviously we can, we just choose not to, because we value the bargaining credits and quids we get from bartering that flying to management so that they can shop to the lowest bidder in the first place. Nothing about that disgusting process has any more to do with the 90 seat "RJ" than it would the 747.

Would the company be in danger if it brought 76ers in house at a mainline cost structure, once you lopped off all the massive layers of redundancy and costs of incompetency at the fake airline regional level? Even if that lift had a net increase in cost, would the additional costs be so severe that, ammortized over the entire operation like every other plane we have is, really drag the company down in a big way? Come on. Really?

 

For acl, ftb, newknow, Carl, Johnso, togo_lk and others i am missing....your not just good pilots but good AIRLINE pilots. You see the big picture and understand the heritage and responsibilty of the positions you hold.

Thank you from me and the other lurkers as we wade through this sea of half truths.

Pro ALPA or anti ALPA this sales job and most of the reasoning posted by a few I will leave un-named has been an absolute insult to the intelligence of most members of this forum.

 

I guess. But then so is this guy:



Sort of. For now. I mean on his facebook page under affiliation it probably says "its complicated". But those of us in The Order can now see who is really pulling the strings.

 

Of course you can. As each contract expires, it's not renewed. All DCI is done by 2025 or 2030. It's slow, but allows ample time to create the Southwest concept of the Delta brand only being flown by Delta pilots. Whether it's a 76 seat RJ, or a Gulfstream 14 seat executive jet. If it has the Delta brand, Delta pilots fly it. For you to say: "You can't" is simply wrong and management/union propaganda.

Because it's about so much more than the money. It's about the reinvigoration of the RJ experiment by allowing them more of the most modern and efficient aircraft. It's about the purposeful usage of compliance language that is not legally defensible. Etc, etc.

Fact...ONLY if the ratio language is defended by DALPA and ONLY if the "hard caps" are held to. When asked this SPECIFIC question at a road show, the MEC admins stated that they could NOT comment on what future negotiations might entail regarding the "hard caps" or the proposed ratios. That's a fact man.

Carl

 

Now that right there is some funny stuff!

Carl

 

Tough love, but absolutely correct in my opinion.

Carl

 

I know I'm probably talking to a cubicle resident here, but here goes anyway. We are negotiating with management. Being able to accurately predict what management is actually doing is critical to any negotiations. It's like wanting to buy a house, then stating: "why are you concerned about what the seller is doing?"

If you were a real pilot who gave up ~50% of your pay and lost or frozen pensions, you'd know the answer to that question. Getting "ours" is nothing more than the repayment of a loan without which Delta would be liquidated right now.

Nobody is interested in sabotaging management. We're only interested in being partially repaid for our investment that prevented liquidation. Nothing more.

Again, if you were really a Delta pilot, you would know the answer to that question. There's not a single Delta pilot (except Moak and the MEC admins) who don't understand we made a dreadful mistake caving in to the fear of that time. Many of us are making the exact same mistake again.

This really is the final proof that you're not a Delta pilot. This website is only for active airline pilots. This statement reeks of the standard pressure tactics used by management to use hapless cubicle types lilke yourself to shame pilots into wanting a partial repayment of their loan.

You need to do a lot more listening before you'll ever be paid any serious attention here bud.

Carl

 

Thanks for the kind words, but it was my generation that caved in to fear in the first place to start this ridiculous nightmare. It does my heart good to see the younger generation like you, ftb, toga lk, acl, Newk and all the others realizing that caving in to fear tactics is a never ending cycle. Fear NEVER stops by running from it. It can ONLY stop by confronting it. It disturbs me to see how high the percentage of younger people is who are currently caving in to fear. You however, give our industry's future hope.

Carl

 

Well said and Thank You for saying it.

 

Good post-I don't understand how so many people can't put two and two together here.