Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-24-2012 | 03:44 PM
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No matter how much fpl Slow is collecting, I don't consider him to be an official source.
My source was an e-mail from DPN, because I was concerned about the ratios and how much flying is currently being done and how much would be the minimum under the TA.
1.76 to 1.56 does not equate to 3% of NB flying
My source was an e-mail from DPN, because I was concerned about the ratios and how much flying is currently being done and how much would be the minimum under the TA.
1.76 to 1.56 does not equate to 3% of NB flying
06-24-2012 | 03:53 PM
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From: LAX ERA
As usual George, you nailed it.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the innuendo and attacks. I've made my decision based on all that I've read, asked, and understood. I have my vote. I'm really dismayed by what I've read here and on other forums. Frankly, it's depressing. I know that we're better than this. Emotion is a troubling thing. In a week, it won't matter thankfully.
I, for one, am sick and tired of the innuendo and attacks. I've made my decision based on all that I've read, asked, and understood. I have my vote. I'm really dismayed by what I've read here and on other forums. Frankly, it's depressing. I know that we're better than this. Emotion is a troubling thing. In a week, it won't matter thankfully.
Ferd (flag on the post, no cheerleading, man law
)
06-24-2012 | 04:04 PM
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From: 737n/FO
I'd say no matter where you stand on the TA, it's a matter of placing value on things.
In my opinion my fellow Delta pilots are a fine bunch of aviators.
Sharp, intelligent the majority are even funny.
I wouldn't want to be associated with a finer bunch of people.
And yet you'll find division in the ranks.
Slam click or stay out late.
Water beer or wine.
Navy, Air Force or god forbid civilian.
Where some see a big reduction in DCI,
other see an increase in large RJs.
Where some see a gain from the speedier retirement of the 50-seater,
other see a tired unwanted jet that was due to go away on its own.
Where some see the benefit of making Delta's DCI operation more profitable,
other see a lifeline thrown to an industry segment in decline.
Where some see the pilot positions gained by introducing a new fleet type,
other lament the loss of pilot positions by work rule changes.
Where some see their captain seat finally arriving,
other see a downward shift in pay and career expectations.
Where some see industry leading pay-rates,
other see pay parity with our peers current pay reached years from now.
Where some see the ratios as ensuring flying will transfer from DCI to mainline,
other say not so fast only if DCI doesn't shrink and then just a little.
Where some see a gain in protection for future JV agreements,
other see a lower negotiating floor.
Where some see a gain for reserves,
others see a concession.
Depending on your perspective, you'll find your truth somewhere between all of that...
Apart from a select few "extremists", I haven't spoken with many that unequivocally value the TA as good or bad.
Cheers
George
In my opinion my fellow Delta pilots are a fine bunch of aviators.
Sharp, intelligent the majority are even funny.
I wouldn't want to be associated with a finer bunch of people.
And yet you'll find division in the ranks.
Slam click or stay out late.
Water beer or wine.
Navy, Air Force or god forbid civilian.
Where some see a big reduction in DCI,
other see an increase in large RJs.
Where some see a gain from the speedier retirement of the 50-seater,
other see a tired unwanted jet that was due to go away on its own.
Where some see the benefit of making Delta's DCI operation more profitable,
other see a lifeline thrown to an industry segment in decline.
Where some see the pilot positions gained by introducing a new fleet type,
other lament the loss of pilot positions by work rule changes.
Where some see their captain seat finally arriving,
other see a downward shift in pay and career expectations.
Where some see industry leading pay-rates,
other see pay parity with our peers current pay reached years from now.
Where some see the ratios as ensuring flying will transfer from DCI to mainline,
other say not so fast only if DCI doesn't shrink and then just a little.
Where some see a gain in protection for future JV agreements,
other see a lower negotiating floor.
Where some see a gain for reserves,
others see a concession.
Depending on your perspective, you'll find your truth somewhere between all of that...
Apart from a select few "extremists", I haven't spoken with many that unequivocally value the TA as good or bad.
Cheers
George
Without getting into some of the emotion that has boiled over with this TA (at least on this forum) this is the best, simplest explanation of this TA to date. Thanks,
DAL73n
06-24-2012 | 04:10 PM
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From: 737n/FO
Sorry FTB, but no matter how you slant this thing, it still looks to me like more flying for us and less flying for them. We go from 598 to 450 RJ’s and we go from 56%/46% mainline vs DCI domestic block hours to a minimum 61%/39%. Not sure why you think caps are negotiable after the contract is signed. Whether or not we still get the 717’s if the TA goes down in flames is anybody’s guess. I have a feeling that after a punitive measure of some sort we actually would, but I wouldn’t bet my first beer on it. If you want to risk Bill’s A seat in an attempt to squeeze the company a little harder, then you will have to deal with him when Air Umpty Squat buys the 717’s instead. 
P.S. Your side of the argument loses credibility when you base part of it on "If we turn down the TA we'll get the 717's anyway." Maybe yes, maybe no. If we take everything on face value, you are completely wrong. We will not be getting the 717's. If we were to use this assumption, then conceivably we could make all sorts of other assumptions and possibly false conclusions as well. Do you really think if the TA is tanked, that RA would just immediately say, “OK guys, you got me. I was bluffing and the 717’s are on the way anyway?” I find that thought process flawed. Just wanted to clarify that point.
P.S. Your side of the argument loses credibility when you base part of it on "If we turn down the TA we'll get the 717's anyway." Maybe yes, maybe no. If we take everything on face value, you are completely wrong. We will not be getting the 717's. If we were to use this assumption, then conceivably we could make all sorts of other assumptions and possibly false conclusions as well. Do you really think if the TA is tanked, that RA would just immediately say, “OK guys, you got me. I was bluffing and the 717’s are on the way anyway?” I find that thought process flawed. Just wanted to clarify that point.
06-24-2012 | 04:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 602
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From: SLC 767ER Captain
I'd say no matter where you stand on the TA, it's a matter of placing value on things.
In my opinion my fellow Delta pilots are a fine bunch of aviators.
Sharp, intelligent the majority are even funny.
I wouldn't want to be associated with a finer bunch of people.
And yet you'll find division in the ranks.
Slam click or stay out late.
Water beer or wine.
Navy, Air Force or god forbid civilian.
Where some see a big reduction in DCI,
other see an increase in large RJs.
Where some see a gain from the speedier retirement of the 50-seater,
other see a tired unwanted jet that was due to go away on its own.
Where some see the benefit of making Delta's DCI operation more profitable,
other see a lifeline thrown to an industry segment in decline.
Where some see the pilot positions gained by introducing a new fleet type,
other lament the loss of pilot positions by work rule changes.
Where some see their captain seat finally arriving,
other see a downward shift in pay and career expectations.
Where some see industry leading pay-rates,
other see pay parity with our peers current pay reached years from now.
Where some see the ratios as ensuring flying will transfer from DCI to mainline,
other say not so fast only if DCI doesn't shrink and then just a little.
Where some see a gain in protection for future JV agreements,
other see a lower negotiating floor.
Where some see a gain for reserves,
others see a concession.
Depending on your perspective, you'll find your truth somewhere between all of that...
Apart from a select few "extremists", I haven't spoken with many that unequivocally value the TA as good or bad.
Cheers
George
In my opinion my fellow Delta pilots are a fine bunch of aviators.
Sharp, intelligent the majority are even funny.
I wouldn't want to be associated with a finer bunch of people.
And yet you'll find division in the ranks.
Slam click or stay out late.
Water beer or wine.
Navy, Air Force or god forbid civilian.
Where some see a big reduction in DCI,
other see an increase in large RJs.
Where some see a gain from the speedier retirement of the 50-seater,
other see a tired unwanted jet that was due to go away on its own.
Where some see the benefit of making Delta's DCI operation more profitable,
other see a lifeline thrown to an industry segment in decline.
Where some see the pilot positions gained by introducing a new fleet type,
other lament the loss of pilot positions by work rule changes.
Where some see their captain seat finally arriving,
other see a downward shift in pay and career expectations.
Where some see industry leading pay-rates,
other see pay parity with our peers current pay reached years from now.
Where some see the ratios as ensuring flying will transfer from DCI to mainline,
other say not so fast only if DCI doesn't shrink and then just a little.
Where some see a gain in protection for future JV agreements,
other see a lower negotiating floor.
Where some see a gain for reserves,
others see a concession.
Depending on your perspective, you'll find your truth somewhere between all of that...
Apart from a select few "extremists", I haven't spoken with many that unequivocally value the TA as good or bad.
Cheers
George
06-24-2012 | 04:23 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
No matter how much fpl Slow is collecting, I don't consider him to be an official source.
My source was an e-mail from DPN, because I was concerned about the ratios and how much flying is currently being done and how much would be the minimum under the TA.
1.76 to 1.56 does not equate to 3% of NB flying
My source was an e-mail from DPN, because I was concerned about the ratios and how much flying is currently being done and how much would be the minimum under the TA.
1.76 to 1.56 does not equate to 3% of NB flying
It was also stated by a few reps in the road shows.
I think Slow has the official numbers. I will look through my slew of communications to find another source for you though.
Slide 56 and 57 of the road show notes show the min versus business plan. Slide 68 of the original road show presentation shows the planned ratio of 1.76 to-1 based on the business plan.
Its all right there in blue versus red.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 06-24-2012 at 04:39 PM. Reason: added more info
06-24-2012 | 04:32 PM
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Posts: 6,070
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Ok, well, nobody else would care, but think of the possibilities. A fighter dude and an airlifter? Einstein.
06-24-2012 | 04:33 PM
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From: 765-A
I voted no. If the TA passes-- and I think it will-- I will pray we expand like gangbusters and things work out just like the MEC said they would.
I would much rather be wrong than proven right. Unlike some, sitting on the sideline and throwing rocks does not sound appealing to me.
06-24-2012 | 04:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Hey George, could you put together a synopsis like this regarding Democrats and Republicans? That would be fantastic. A Nation divided is like a Company divided. Also, would you mind taking a poll to see how many DALN guys are voting no as compared to DALS? OK maybe not. Although as a former militant DALS NO voter, I would love to see those results. It may not sound like it, but I am glad these guys are dissecting the TA and drawing a hard line. I am simply a yes voter because I don't think this is a good time for a PROLONGED drawn out fight with little to gain. I am not opposed to a fight per se, I JUST THINK THE RISKS OUTWEIGH THE POSSIBLE GAINS; although I do understand where these guys are coming from. If the TA gets voted down and we grab significant gains, I will be the first one on this thread kissing all the no voter’s feet and eating crow; however, I doubt if any of the no voters will admit to the same.
06-24-2012 | 04:37 PM
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From: 765-A
.... And fightings just my game.
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