Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-06-2012, 11:17 AM
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Fwiw voting up or down a TA is part of the process, the ALPA process, which I fully support period.
06-06-2012, 11:21 AM
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06-06-2012, 12:01 PM
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First, you can't code share with an alliance, an alliance has no code. You can code with other airlines. We have no restrictions on Jet Blue or Spirit or Virgin America doing a code share with Lufthansa either. What is special about Frontier that you want to restrict them from doing a code share? They can't carry Delta passengers and Delta has exclusive rights for code sharing in the US with AF/KLM. So you still don't answer the question, what does this have to do with your career at Delta?
Okay, what scenarios for a profit loss agreement does it not cover?
It is comical because we are talking about 5 business jets that have 19 passengers or less. When was the last time that Delta flew an airplane that had 19 passenger seats in it? The 40's? I am sorry, this is a joke.
Okay so you are worried that we can grow a lot and then shrink, but we have to be larger than we are today. Under today's protections we can just shrink right off the bat. How is that better?
So hiring will come six months later than under this TA, why is that good?
Let's be honest, 40 growth mainline, 70 more large RJ's, 218 less 50 seaters, no turboprop exceptions. 40 more mainline, 148 less DCI.
Your answer had nothing to do with displacements. You hint that this TA will somehow accelerate displacements and then you talk about furlough protection. Our furlough protection is much stronger on the TA.
Your answer had nothing to do with displacements. You hint that this TA will somehow accelerate displacements and then you talk about furlough protection. Our furlough protection is much stronger on the TA.
On furlough protection it's better but we already have protections that make the roi too far away.
Debunking. Reserves have to average 60 hours. Currently only 5% of reserves make it to 70 hours. How are guys going to average more than 60? Please give me the definition of average and then show the math how they exceed that average.
They can initially and it's more about being on the hook for days where now we are freefrom obligation after flying within two hrs of alv.
Okay, without the recovery option, they get no pay and then they have to pick up open time to get paid. With the recovery option, they get paid, and then they can be assigned open time. How is guaranteeing a guy's pay a concession. This is a gain, no matter how you try to spin it. By the way, this affects about 50 guys a month.
SWA will be below us in January 1, 2013 when you consider the DC plan. Please do not try to spin me that the DC doesn't count. We have decided to convert some pay to DC, if we put it all back into pay is our compensation changed at all? AF/KLM/BA, are you kidding me? Seriously, what do you think the NMB would say to you if you brought up those foreign carriers as our pattern. I mean after they pick themselves up off the floor laughing. Go ask 1,000 businessmen if Delta is a competitor for Fedex or UPS. Tell me what 999 of them will say. You know the mediators aren't like grade school children that can be hoodwinked by silly arguments.
It comes down to pilot wants and in turn the MEC's direction.
So what do you base your assumption that Delta will just roll over if we go back for the 351st time to ask for more? You do understand that the basis for this deal was the 76 seat jets and what that allows them to do with the 50 seaters, so if you think there is some deal that doesn't involve those aircraft then you are sadly mistaken. If that is your bottom line, then don't pretend that there is some quick deal out there without those jets. Get ready to see what the f... around checklist looks like.
I am not selling fear you are selling "a hope and a prayer". You tell me, how long have major airlines been in mediation in the last 7 years? I won't tell you, because you might get scared, you tell me. How are we different from them? What conditions make it so that we don't face the same historical fate as them?
Here is what I base may decision on:
- The last time we had a deadline with this management (JCBA in the merger) and missed it, the deal got worse by $250 million. We will never recover a penny of that loss, gone forever
- Direct negotiations with management over 60 days and hundreds of proposals. The scope provisions were all fought over to the last day.
- The advice of four professional negotiators with over 100 years negotiating experience
- The advice of professional economists that have been studying this industry for dozens of years
- The direct history of our competitors over the last 7 years and the lack of movement in their negotiations.
- The lack of any meaningful retroactive pay even after multiple years in negotiations
Give me some facts, give me some data, give me something more than "well I have a hunch." The last hunch we followed cost us $250 million. Before I risk $1 billion I want more than a hunch.
06-06-2012, 12:46 PM
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06-06-2012, 12:55 PM
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T; merger or acquisition, yes, I agree. Fact is Dal needs access to capital to initiate this. Debts too high. Rj's swap solves this. Without it they have less options.
06-06-2012, 01:24 PM
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06-06-2012, 01:26 PM
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06-06-2012, 01:39 PM
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Except they won't say it out loud. And they do it slowly. A concession here. An exemption there. Just a handful of business jets. Just a slight delay in enforcing that pesky "production balance". A one time only, "we'll get 'em next time" grievance settlement.
alfaromeo says we're getting all worked up over trivial things. He says these things are so small they are comical.
Let 'em have a few more 76 seaters. C'mon guys, we're only adjusting the numbers a little bit. Management's in a jam. We can help. Besides, don't look over there. Look over here --> We got ratios. Industry leading ratios.
What ALPA is doing to us on scope is truly sad. We are like the proverbial frogs being brought to a gradual boil. We don't catch on and try to jump out of the pan until its too late. We're cooked.
Meanwhile it is severe career stagnation for the bottom half of our ever-shrinking list.
Then, ultimately ---> will the last Delta pilot please turn out the lights.
06-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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06-06-2012, 02:07 PM
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I think that is absolutely correct.
Except they won't say it out loud. And they do it slowly. A concession here. An exemption there. Just a handful of business jets. Just a slight delay in enforcing that pesky "production balance". A one time only, "we'll get 'em next time" grievance settlement.
alfaromeo says we're getting all worked up over trivial things. He says these things are so small they are comical.
Let 'em have a few more 76 seaters. C'mon guys, we're only adjusting the numbers a little bit. Management's in a jam. We can help. Besides, don't look over there. Look over here --> We got ratios. Industry leading ratios.
What ALPA is doing to us on scope is truly sad. We are like the proverbial frogs being brought to a gradual boil. We don't catch on and try to jump out of the pan until its too late. We're cooked.
Meanwhile it is severe career stagnation for the bottom half of our ever-shrinking list.
Then, ultimately ---> will the last Delta pilot please turn out the lights.
Except they won't say it out loud. And they do it slowly. A concession here. An exemption there. Just a handful of business jets. Just a slight delay in enforcing that pesky "production balance". A one time only, "we'll get 'em next time" grievance settlement.
alfaromeo says we're getting all worked up over trivial things. He says these things are so small they are comical.
Let 'em have a few more 76 seaters. C'mon guys, we're only adjusting the numbers a little bit. Management's in a jam. We can help. Besides, don't look over there. Look over here --> We got ratios. Industry leading ratios.
What ALPA is doing to us on scope is truly sad. We are like the proverbial frogs being brought to a gradual boil. We don't catch on and try to jump out of the pan until its too late. We're cooked.
Meanwhile it is severe career stagnation for the bottom half of our ever-shrinking list.
Then, ultimately ---> will the last Delta pilot please turn out the lights.
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