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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1208326)
Your argument is not with me finis, it's with RA, ED and Austin Powers. They're all on the record and in writing. Are they lying?
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1208332)
Uh, nobody's talking about DPA except you. Which by the way, is a new DALPA talking point. Anytime somebody points out something you don't like, refer to it as a DPA talking point. It's tired already.
That's not what I said. I said: "Every cost increase in this TA is FULL FUNDED by CONCESSIONS in this TA." Again, your argument is with RA, ED and smiley...not with me. Why don't you call them and tell them they're lying about our TA. No shellling, just want you to be clear where I'm hearing this. Carl Furthermore, I couldn't care less if they are lying. I'm analyzing the TA on it's own merits. They can say what they want about it. It puts more money in my pocket ASAP and tightens up our scope (I'll pre-agree to disagree as I know your stance on that.) For me that's more than enough. Side question, as I'm really curious on this one. What is your opinion of the JV language in the TA versus what we have now? Do you consider it worthless because it was written by ALPA lawyers? What cost/value would you attribute to that if things go south in NRT and Delta suddently wants to JV away our Pacific flying? |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1208326)
Your argument is not with me finis, it's with RA, ED and Austin Powers. They're all on the record and in writing. Are they lying?
Carl |
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 1208339)
I'm not buying it. Exactly what other parts of the contract are funding our significant (compared to industry peers, matching SWA) pay increase?
And by the way, we will NOT be at pay parity with SWA at the end of this TA. Not even close. We might be near pay RATE parity, but nowhere close to compensation parity.
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 1208339)
Side question, as I'm really curious on this one. What is your opinion of the JV language in the TA versus what we have now? Do you consider it worthless because it was written by ALPA lawyers? What cost/value would you attribute to that if things go south in NRT and Delta suddently wants to JV away our Pacific flying?
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1208366)
I don't know what other parts of the TA are funding it, Ed and RA didn't say. If I had to guess, I would say it's being funded by our very large concession on ALV's and reserves...which is huge. I would also say it's management's plan to remove higher paying mainline jets, and replace them with much lower paying mainline jets. That's REALLY huge. Again, that's just my prediction...because management was silent on those details.
And by the way, we will NOT be at pay parity with SWA at the end of this TA. Not even close. We might be near pay RATE parity, but nowhere close to compensation parity. The JV language is OK. But it shows me that management only gave it away because they had no intention of ever needing it. Instead, they fought REALLY hard and GOT their additional 70 mainline replacement jets. In my view, they fought for that because they have every intention of using it. Carl Do you see huge productivity for our reserves this Fall, if the TA is voted in? This company is staffed for 2 months only, JULY and AUGUST. The rest we are overmanned. This Fall we are cutting routes like JFK to FCO, for the first time in decades, until next Spring. But, you think reserves are going to fly 99 hours? If so, I am bidding reserve! It sure will beat the 66 hour line I got 3 months ago. That was great..... I live in base, so I'm going to bid reserve, fly 99 hours per month, and fly 1000 hours in 10 months, and have two months off. Ok, 1 month thanks to vacation. I can handle that! Sweet! Hopefully it will be December. |
Since this thread was started to discuss hiring, we've come a long way. Now when I logged in this morning I was a little surprised no one was talking about the SD weekly address where he discusses the need to hire in the fall of 2012 if the good lord is willing and the creek don't rise, of course.
I would love more than anything to see some actual hiring here. Any forward movement at all would be welcome and I think would go a long way to raising morale. The question is whether this is genuine or if it's just pandering to the junior folks who seem to be the most against the TA. I hope its for our eventual world dominance. |
Originally Posted by bigbusdriver
(Post 1208099)
Delta PWA 1986 - Unlimited 70 seat aircraft allowed Delta PWA 1991 - No change to 70 seat aircraft of any type Delta PWA 1996 - BAe-146 and Avro RJ-85 carved out, Sunshine B Scale designed, weight limits added for DCI freight aircraft Delta PWA 2000 - Passenger DCI weight limits added, ratios, hub, block hours and more tied to resets no downside protection LOA 46 Pre 1113 - Still no limits on 50 but adds up to 150 70 with mainline growth nothing tied to mainline shrinkage LOA 51 1113 - unlimited 50 200 70 and 30 76 based on C2K metrics (Delta's court plan) LOA - 19 DL + NWA = 255 70/76 unlimited 50 and all the props in the world 1. Delta pilots voted on all of these. No secret LOA. Bus: :cool: |
Originally Posted by bigbusdriver
(Post 1208099)
Delta PWA 1986 - Unlimited 70 seat aircraft allowed Delta PWA 1991 - No change to 70 seat aircraft of any type Delta PWA 1996 - BAe-146 and Avro RJ-85 carved out, Sunshine B Scale designed, weight limits added for DCI freight aircraft Delta PWA 2000 - Passenger DCI weight limits added, ratios, hub, block hours and more tied to resets no downside protection LOA 46 Pre 1113 - Still no limits on 50 but adds up to 150 70 with mainline growth nothing tied to mainline shrinkage LOA 51 1113 - unlimited 50 200 70 and 30 76 based on C2K metrics (Delta's court plan) LOA - 19 DL + NWA = 255 70/76 unlimited 50 and all the props in the world 1. Delta pilots voted on all of these. No secret LOA. Bus:
Originally Posted by DFW Refugee
(Post 1208515)
Correction, Delta pilots, (Rank-and-file), did not vote on their contracts until POS '96.
:cool: Remarkably the lack of long term strategy continues today with this proposal allowing more large RJ's at a time when we have an opportunity to let RJ's die with the help of high oil prices. |
Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1208243)
"I was at the Atlanta North roadshow
$1,290,000,000 is a bit of a stretch We are not getting $430M a year at day 1,*Its going to be drawn out over 3.5 years 2012 4% day 1, end of 2012 we are at $40M but we already gave up higher crew utilization(paid for) 2013 8.5% of which we trade 2% profit sharing nets 6.5% equals net $210M(assuming straightline profit) 2014 $210M plus 1% or $20M (since 2% profit sharing is substituted for hard $$$) = $230M 2015 $210M + $40M= $250M Grand total approx $730M We need $80M to $100M a year just to keep up with inflation or $350M over 3.5 years so we are giving up(selling) more 76 seat SNB jets to the commuter, better reserve utilization (ALV+15) higher crew utilization (current ALV cap +2) for $730M which is a paltry $380M over our cost of living. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth, we are making our increases by working harder and relaxing scope. Cost neutral means we pay for the raises not someone else." Your napkin math failed to include the 7.8% raise for all reserve pilots, the 2.4% raise for 2/3 of the 88 pilots, the increased DC, the increased staffing for the extra x days that reserves will get, the pilots over 20 who get an extra 30 hours Of sick each year, the improved disability plan, etc... That will drive higher staffing and more upward movement. You can't "napkin math" a 477 page document that has major gains hidden from wall street and the other employees groups all over the place. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1208610)
Your napkin math failed to include the 7.8% raise for all reserve pilots, the 2.4% raise for 2/3 of the 88 pilots, the increased DC, the increased staffing for the extra x days that reserves will get, the pilots over 20 who get an extra 30 hours Of sick each year, the improved disability plan, etc...
That will drive higher staffing and more upward movement. |
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