That line of thinking is a very fine one indeed. The TA is clearly giving up things to get things. You can argue its a net gain if you want to, so let's call it that for the sake of argument.

But we're still giving up things to get things. So if we need to take the deal because of how bad the economy and our peer set is, just how much worse do things need to get (post TA) for us to be right back at the negotiating table dealing in concessions? One of the biggest "gains" by the pro-TA folks is the pay. 19.7% "raise" even though some of it was paid for in flat out sold jobs including gifting the 100K lbs jets at non-union/won't-hire-furloughed-DL-pilots DPJ, and some of it was in the form of securing permanent profit sharing pay. If things get bad, we still have that pay, right?

But wait, what's the first thing to go when things get bad? OK thats debatable between pay and any block hour/ratio "restrictions" on RJ's, but they both go pretty quickly.

If things get real bad what's harder to do, keep 255 at 255, or force the company to park (or grossly underutilize) DC-9-10 replacement jets at DCI that are twice as expensive to park as their mainline equivalent DC-9-30's?

So if we need to yes the TA because of the perilous environment we find ourselves in, we guarantee we will get 100% of the negatives in the TA. That is non debatable. But how much of the positives that we got in exchange will we get to keep?

Then there's the matter of loopholes. The 2014/2015 window for DCI is absolutely unacceptable. No deal. If this thing is being sold as hard core block hour ratio protections, then it needs to deliver as such. Not yet another extremely management friendly compliance window so we can get hammered like the AFKLM JV with a 2.9 year no floor bottom and a one time snapshot rebalance followed by 2.9 years of no bottom. The LRJ block hour protections will work the same way, that's pretty clear.

And the lost jobs are gone forever. And the 50 or so DPJ jobs that we already paid for and resecured in arbitration will be gone forever too, to non union, won't hire DL pilots on furlough DPJ. Really?

Waves,

The world has been in unprecedented turmoil for years. Yet, "the world" doesn't pay me, Delta Air Lines does. How has Delta been doing during all of this unprecedented turmoil?

Why you have to diminish us to less than "doctor/lawyer" status to make your point about accepting the TA, is troubling. If you think it's a good deal, leave it at that. Your "we ain't all that" mentality hurts us more than 500 seventy seat RJ's.

I believe your attitude hurts the company, too. This is a company that wants us to be professionals. This is a company that wants us to portray that professionalism to the public. This is a company that spent millions of dollars on an add campaign to tell the world how professional we were. This company wants us to use that professionalism to save them tens of millions of dollars every year. So, I would ask you to alter your commentary about us and limit it to what you think about yourself.

If the company thinks we aren't of professional grade, then let them say it. But, that's not what I've heard from them, so far.

Did you know Newk when he was flying F-15s in the Navy?

Shhhhhhhhhh you fool, you KNOW that is super(pilot) secret:D

And he could land it on a carrier without the sissy crutch tailhook that lesser aviators rely on. In a tailwind. And grease it. And still stop before the tower. Without heating the brakes. Every time.

Newk, Navy F-15 guy...

That would barely be a test of his capabilities.

What would push him to the limits would be to land an MD-88 on a 10,000 runway and try to taxi back without brake chatter. It may, may, be impossible.

Ha! That reminds me of when I was deadheading on a flight from MEM to DTW and there was a non-reving FA in the row behind me. A passenger was sitting next to her and I overheard him trying to pick her up. He asked her if she had a boyfriend and she said yes, he was a Navy plot. He told her he was a Navy pilot, too and had just gotten out. She asked him what aircraft he flew and he said F-15's. She told him she didn't think the Navy flew F-15's and the conversation went downhill from there.

I think it was the closest I ever come to getting dragged into the chief pilots office, because I wanted to turn around and laugh at him so badly -- but, I didn't. I did have a grim on my face like this :D though the whole way. :D

Between 110-128 open NMB regulated open negotiations mediated over the last 3 years.

1 proffer of arbitration in the last 3 years.

ALL legacies out of bankruptcy are WAY below us, negotiating with the NMB for 3-7 years with nothing to show for it.

Yes. I think that is valid information.

I piddy da fool:p