If I hear how "the world is in turmoil" again I'm going to vomit. There will always be global strife. We are living through the biggest economic shift in history. Wealth is moving up the food chain. ALPA has decidedly placed the piloting profession with the other losers in the economy, instead of where it belongs---with the doctors, lawyers, national union reps...and other professions. This TA cements that position.

Where I live, they are building 4 million dollar homes like there is no tomorrow. Our airplanes are record full, and not with 99 dollar fare sales-- those people have to drive now. The world has changed. ALPA national knows it, and they are securing their positions at the table by ensuring a cozy relationship with the corporations. We will be left far behind. This TA is the biggest, bald-faced sell out in history. There won't be a 'next time'.

IMO: Going back to the table right now for what I would perceive as nickels and dimes is extremely foolish. (Not referring to you here) Placing one’s head in the sand (or other dark areas) and ignoring our surrounding environment is a very unwise line of attack. The economy sucks right now. Some of the guys here seem to have the “Damn the torpedoes” mentality. If our country and the World’s outlook were better, I too would probably have more reluctance for voting yes, but it just isn’t good out there. Is anyone paying attention to what’s happening to the AMR guys? My preference is to make sure the company is stronger than the others in these recessionary times so we can survive and come back to fight another day. Right now, I would be happy with “A bird in the hand.” For argument sake, let’s say we turn the TA down and we force the company to eat those 50 seat RJ’s. After all, they ordered the aircraft right! They will still reduce the RJ population all they can anyway, right! True, but when our next contract becomes amendable and the company was forced to swallow red ink on these aircraft and all that comes with them, how amenable does one think management will be for pilot pay increases then? Lastly, many of these posts seem to completely counter what the MEC is telling us. Are we to infer that the MEC will not be held accountable for their statements and they are lying about the facts of the TA?

Nickels and dimes all add up.

Life is a game of inches.

Al Pacino's Inspirational Speech - YouTube

Nu

Ferd, where did your Yoda analogy go? Good one it was.

BTW, Newk would've just pulled his X-Wing fighter out of the swap on his own, screw that little green alien and his stupid mind games.

If it's all doom and gloom you're afraid of with the economy then the idea that this is a growth deal should be off the table. So that leaves us with a TA that ain't too hot in a contracting airline situation. Sure we can squeeze more hourly pay out of this but in many ways we pay a little for it. Is it worth the amount you'll get to permanently give away jobs? The MEC is selling their product. If they don't then why would anyone vote for it anyway...by the way...several of their own did not vote in favor. It's really up to you and I would understand your reasons but I don't really follow the logic here. Management will always look for the best deal whether it's this deal or the next...I expect no less from them. There will be some other angle on the next contract...it's their job to give us a carrot at all the levels.

just say you're senior and you want the pay...I'd accept that

Waves,

Agree with most of what youre saying. I too am holding my nose and voting yes. You'll have to scroll way back to see my poker and military analogies,but simply this is a crappy TA......it's an ok extension.

Ferd

Why do you say that all we could realistically hope for? Do you have any information to support that statement?

Psssssttttttt. NewK is Obi one kenobi, you're right he can pull it out of the swamp and take the management Sith too:cool: