Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-22-2012, 06:08 PM
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I just really want to see the CRJ900 line closed.
06-22-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFrog
I just really want to see the CRJ900 line closed.
06-22-2012, 06:25 PM
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I heard the number on the 717's is approximately 8.7 million per plane. That will include new delta interiors and paint. Planes will be delivered ready to produce revenue immediately. Sounds like a excellent deal regardless of TA.
06-22-2012, 06:27 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Originally Posted by slowplay
Your question indicates linear thinking that is not taking into account several things:
1. Delta doesn't pay for engine maintenance on non-Delta owned/obligated aircraft.
2. Delta doesn't pay for engine maintenance on aircraft that it doesn't want if it has no ownership obligations.
3. Delta has a path to get rid of a substantial number of 50 seat aircraft without this deal (contract renegotiations and subleasing). The TA/PWA gets no "credit" for cost savings that Delta can achieve on its own.
4. Delta can move "green engines" between aircraft that are currently parked, aircraft that will be parked and aircraft that are continuing to operate.
5. The 125 aircraft that Delta wants to retain are the aircraft that would receive Zero Time type overhauls. Everything else gets "necessary" treatment. Those overhauls run about $800K
6. Delta can do a substantial amount of the work in-house, saving the entire profit and risk margin mark-up.
Bottom line, the numbers I posted are accurate. They are the above run rate, ownership and contractual savings that Delta can achieve with us that they other wise would not be able to achieve without us during the term of this contract.
There is a plan B. Anderson talked about it in his employee Q&A today. While the whole thing is good (we closed on Trainer today) questions 7 and 8 directly reference pilots, our TA and fleet plan.
1. Delta doesn't pay for engine maintenance on non-Delta owned/obligated aircraft.
2. Delta doesn't pay for engine maintenance on aircraft that it doesn't want if it has no ownership obligations.
3. Delta has a path to get rid of a substantial number of 50 seat aircraft without this deal (contract renegotiations and subleasing). The TA/PWA gets no "credit" for cost savings that Delta can achieve on its own.
4. Delta can move "green engines" between aircraft that are currently parked, aircraft that will be parked and aircraft that are continuing to operate.
5. The 125 aircraft that Delta wants to retain are the aircraft that would receive Zero Time type overhauls. Everything else gets "necessary" treatment. Those overhauls run about $800K
6. Delta can do a substantial amount of the work in-house, saving the entire profit and risk margin mark-up.
Bottom line, the numbers I posted are accurate. They are the above run rate, ownership and contractual savings that Delta can achieve with us that they other wise would not be able to achieve without us during the term of this contract.
There is a plan B. Anderson talked about it in his employee Q&A today. While the whole thing is good (we closed on Trainer today) questions 7 and 8 directly reference pilots, our TA and fleet plan.
I'll take your word on both the overall cost and all the ways they can reduce that cost. I think in an earlier post I had $800M based on airplanes that would be due up in the next 2-4 years (150 was my estimation) and that didn't take into account the issue of who is responsible for some of the aircraft's cost and shifting costs around to reduce costs. So I can buy a $400-500M cost.
Now, I have a fwiw type question for you or anyone who knows: How are they determining which 125 CR2s they'll keep? (give or take if we keep CHQ E145s)
Is it just the youngest like Pinnacles or some other determinant?
06-22-2012, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
You are a sucker if you take numbers at face value supplied by those you are negotiating with.
The fact that ALPA gets to see the ASA's from each of the represented carriers and can cross check those numbers is an advantage your little independent website of lies couldn't begin to match.
Who is the real sucker?
06-22-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFrog
I just really want to see the CRJ900 line closed.
06-22-2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Thanks for the info Slow.
I'll take your word on both the overall cost and all the ways they can reduce that cost. I think in an earlier post I had $800M based on airplanes that would be due up in the next 2-4 years and that didn't take into account the issue of who is responsible for some of the aircraft's cost and shifting costs around to reduce costs. So I can buy a $500M cost.
Now, I have a fwiw type question for you or anyone who knows: How are they determining which 125 CR2s they'll keep? (give or take if we keep CHQ E145s)
Is it just the youngest like Pinnacles or some other determinant?
I'll take your word on both the overall cost and all the ways they can reduce that cost. I think in an earlier post I had $800M based on airplanes that would be due up in the next 2-4 years and that didn't take into account the issue of who is responsible for some of the aircraft's cost and shifting costs around to reduce costs. So I can buy a $500M cost.
Now, I have a fwiw type question for you or anyone who knows: How are they determining which 125 CR2s they'll keep? (give or take if we keep CHQ E145s)
Is it just the youngest like Pinnacles or some other determinant?
06-22-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikz09
I heard the number on the 717's is approximately 8.7 million per plane. That will include new delta interiors and paint. Planes will be delivered ready to produce revenue immediately. Sounds like a excellent deal regardless of TA.
Q7. What is the latest with Delta’s fleet strategy? How do we plan to address our future fleet needs?
A. We continue to pursue an opportunistic fleet strategy that features acquisition and deployment of the most efficient aircraft available to meet the needs of our customers. We have employed this strategy to acquire both new and used aircraft to replace mainline (DC9s, older 757s) and regional (50-seat jets, Saab turboprops) aircraft. On the new side, we finalized a deal last summer with Boeing to purchase 100 new 737-900ER jets, which will begin delivery next year. On the used side, we have been buying MD-90s and will have 65 of these flexible, cost-efficient planes in service by the end of next year. You have probably also heard that the recent announcement of Delta’s tentative agreement with our pilots could provide the opportunity to accelerate the fleet strategy with the addition of 88 Boeing 717 aircraft to the mainline fleet, subject to pilot ratification of the agreement.
I'm sure the "cost neutral" (which was never said by management and only said by the C20 rep, btw) guys will now claim what used to be their burning bush is inaccurate...
06-22-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplay
Thanks for your usual constructive input.
The fact that ALPA gets to see the ASA's from each of the represented carriers and can cross check those numbers is an advantage your little independent website of lies couldn't begin to match.
Who is the real sucker?
The fact that ALPA gets to see the ASA's from each of the represented carriers and can cross check those numbers is an advantage your little independent website of lies couldn't begin to match.
Who is the real sucker?
Kindly address whether the loss of Capital Expenditure lavished on the DCI carriers is included in ALPA's analysis of outsourcing which concludes "mainline pilots can not fly these airplanes for competitive rates."
Between ASA and Comair that is what ... 4.5 Billion? How much did NWA have in its connection operation?
All in, with two crashes, over 100 wrongful death settlements, three bankruptcies, two lawsuits and the wholesale destruction of value of company assets ... has Delta's outsourcing been a good deal?
A fair analysis of outsourcing can not be made without also considering the unexpected costs ... just as unscheduled engine removals end up in the MD88's costs eventually.
06-22-2012, 07:07 PM
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I will take Richard for his word. My point is that at the acquisition costs of the 717, would be half of the cost of a elongated pregnant beer can (crj 900). Pilots fly the airplanes management provides us. Nothing more, nothing less. My postion would be never let a airplane acquisition cloud a contract negotiation. Airplanes come and go, the contract has lasting effects.
Personally i believe the company is a value shopper and these 717's are a value. Who's right? I guess it will all shake out in a few weeks.
Personally i believe the company is a value shopper and these 717's are a value. Who's right? I guess it will all shake out in a few weeks.
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