Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1242416)

Sailing,

The poster suggested that perhaps a flow through could be offered, for Captains, providing certain criteria were met. Terms to be cram down. No tears. What a deal.

How would Northwest's DC9 and A319 pilots respond to such an offer? How would Western's or Northeast's? Or Pan Am's ATR drivers who retired as DAL L1011 Captains?

JC Lawson (according to this report) told them no, that ALPA had a merger policy and it should be followed.

What many fail to realize is the effect of D-ALPA's misguided arrogance on Delta pilots. Delta pilots took unnecessary furloughs. Delta pilots saw their high water mark contract come apart within six months of ratification over scope failures. Delta pilots saw half their flying outsourced. Delta pilots entered bankruptcy and Delta (the Company) basically burned 4 Billion dollars* which today we are paying back with interest. The track record is abysmal.

Unity is always the best policy ... not for the Comair pilots ... for all of us.

Personally, I profited by sort of jumping a made up line. I'm "senior" to several thousand I'd had been junior to under the plan posted; however, half my airline's domestic flying was outsourced making it LESS than a wash. I really wish we had 4 billion back in the bank (plus interest) and we could have that cash to grow on.

Comair learned their lesson. Did we?

For review:

• Flow through agreements FACILITATE outsourcing
• Management is frequently unable to keep promises of pilot hiring
• Flow through agreements destroy longevity
• Flow through agreements do not provide job protection for mainline pilots (they lose their mainline jobs)
• Flow through agreements divide pilots

JC Lawson was correct to reject that ill conceived plan. Delta pilots should have objected as well. It just was not a good idea.

We just recovered some flying. I'm willing to applaud our current direction and will applaud the retirement of those gentlemen on both sides of the issue who cost us a decade.

* Note: I'm too lazy to add the full Capital Expense. New terminals, General Offices, 500 RJ's all cost something in addition to the purchase price of the airlines and proxy labor fight. The real number could easily be over 7 Billion.

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1242446)

True, but the calculus of what we are fed vis a vie the costs of the mainline doing the flying certainly changes.

We're told that cost studies show that the mainline cannot compete with DCI, not because of the pilots, but because of the ancillary labor groups.

That works until you realize that other than the pilots (and the dispatchers, who's incremental added cost is probably negligible), the DAL workforce is entirely non-union.

So now we have DGS doing the above and below wing work, for the SAME labor cost as the mainline, because they're the same people, so scratch them off the ledger.

Who's left? MX and the FAs. The company is absolutely FREE to dictate whatever terms and conditions they wish to these groups for the 76 seat flying. So that end of it is certainly within the company's control.

So what's left? The pilots, but that takes us back to them saying "it's not just the pilots". Um, no, it IS just the pilots.


Nu

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1242471)

Acutally, just changing from the standard WiFi IP address of 192.168.1.1 will cure %90 of your security hassles.

You could always change his SSID to "SecureUrRouterBetter", or the ever popular "FREE PUBLIC WIFI".

Nu

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1242435)

and I hacked my neighbor's wireless (sports fans are easy to hack ... usually a team or mascot, then 192.168.1.1 Admin admin in for the win) should I change his WEP to "DeltaPilot" for grins?

Back in civilization :)

Originally Posted by N9373M (Post 1242550)

I'd probably stop using the neighbor's wi-fi since it's a felony.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1242559)

So what I hear you saying is that you can go to butt-slammin jail with child molesters and murderers for using unsecured wifi.

Is that correct?

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1242559)

So what I hear you saying is that you can go to butt-slammin jail with child molesters and murderers for using unsecured wifi.

Is that correct?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1242512)

Bar, You keep missing the point that Delta and ASA/Comair never merged. In fact management had no intention of ever merging the airlines and nothing we could have done would have forced the issue. Remember the company controls the seniority list not DALPA. The giant mistake ASA/Comair made was not seeing a single carrier determination from the NMB as the wholly owned eagle carriers did. Perhaps sometime you could comment on why that did not happen?