Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-17-2012 | 05:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
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I've always been a huge advocate of getting rid of longevity pay. I think the top of the pay scale should be the only pay scale. Then pilots can start over at other airlines with at least their pay in tact. It would also take away some of the advantage upstart airlines have.
08-17-2012 | 05:20 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I sometimes wonder when it comes to longevity based pay at the regionals if it would be better for the pilots to just have a 3-5 year pay scale? Don't reward longevity with pay, just schedule. But if the point is to get time and move on then don't reward staying. As to the pay, make it somewhat around the average, higher than years 1-5 but lower than years 13-20. Maybe it'd help mitigate being undercut in this asinine whipsaw system.
Sorry typing while walking...
Sorry typing while walking...
Do Pinnacle pilots fly real airplanes?
Do Pinnacle pilots have real responsibilities?
Are experienced pilots worth more than inexperienced pilots?
If Pinnacle pilots can fly safely without longevity pay, why should I pay pilots at my airline for their longevity? After all, we are losing load factor to Virgin on the west coast and Jet Blue on the east.
08-17-2012 | 05:23 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I've always been a huge advocate of getting rid of longevity pay. I think the top of the pay scale should be the only pay scale. Then pilots can start over at other airlines with at least their pay in tact. It would also take away some of the advantage upstart airlines have.
The lower starting rates, like teaser rates on Cable TV service, is hoped to induce management into growing their airline and signing pilots on for a long term commitment.
If you want non union career portability, those jobs are available. I think you will find your employment at Delta better rewards your loyal service.
08-17-2012 | 05:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
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I love APC on a day where there might be an AE award out. The atmosphere is slightly charged with tension. It's like prom night, really, with everyone mulling about in their tuxedos, wondering if they're going to get laid or simply screwed.
As we try to get a peek at a little underboob.
As we try to get a peek at a little underboob.
08-17-2012 | 05:28 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 947
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From: B25, Left
Life is good!!
I even put in a bid for the 330......
I'd be super junior on it but livin' 30 minutes from the airport parking lot makes sitting reserve (along with the higher guarantee) not too much of a problem.... Thought maybe I'd try and at least get the type... Not sure when that might come in handy!! Anyway, probably wont get it on this one but possibly the next? Looks like about a dozen guys up here on the 330 took the RMA.
Denny
I even put in a bid for the 330...... I'd be super junior on it but livin' 30 minutes from the airport parking lot makes sitting reserve (along with the higher guarantee) not too much of a problem.... Thought maybe I'd try and at least get the type... Not sure when that might come in handy!! Anyway, probably wont get it on this one but possibly the next? Looks like about a dozen guys up here on the 330 took the RMA. Denny
SHOW OFF! Just stay out of the Bars!
08-17-2012 | 05:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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08-17-2012 | 05:36 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
08-17-2012 | 05:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,406
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From: CRJ Captain
Pinnacle FO,
Consider what management is trying to achieve here. They want to take another swing at destroying the longevity system which has been the time honored way our profession has rewarded experience. More experienced pilots fly more productive equipment and get paid more. Presumably that's the reason I get paid more than you for similar work.
I am posting this on the "mainline" thread because mainline pilots need to be aware of these trends. We all need to know our history. Delta acquired "regional" airlines and learned that pilots don't need a legacy contract, legacy rest scheduling rules and legacy pay to get pilots to operate an airplane safely. As bankruptcy approached Delta, management knew what it could get away with because management was already operating two other airlines with "regional" contracts.
This is why what happens to you, and Comair, applies to us. ALPA can not complain something is "unsafe" or "unfair" at one airline when at an alter ego subsidiary they accepted the practice for competitive reasons.
Just remember that pilots don't buy airplanes. We don't earn enough (particularly true in your case). Surely Comair's example frightens Pinnacle pilots, but consider their history. Comair took concessions to take ASA's flying during the previous decade, then more concessions to save their own neck. The age of their fleet and management inefficiencies took them out anyway.
Your pilot group will do better by steering a straight course through this storm, you can't out run it with concessions. Pinnacle's fate is up to mainline carriers' fleet plans, including possibly American's. I'm optimistic for you, but acknowledge little of what mainline management does on the small jet level makes strategic sense.
Perhaps the most sensible way to do an airline is to fly you own airplanes. Hope to see you at a mainline carrier flying passengers who's tickets have the same name on them that your paycheck has printed on it soon.
Consider what management is trying to achieve here. They want to take another swing at destroying the longevity system which has been the time honored way our profession has rewarded experience. More experienced pilots fly more productive equipment and get paid more. Presumably that's the reason I get paid more than you for similar work.
I am posting this on the "mainline" thread because mainline pilots need to be aware of these trends. We all need to know our history. Delta acquired "regional" airlines and learned that pilots don't need a legacy contract, legacy rest scheduling rules and legacy pay to get pilots to operate an airplane safely. As bankruptcy approached Delta, management knew what it could get away with because management was already operating two other airlines with "regional" contracts.
This is why what happens to you, and Comair, applies to us. ALPA can not complain something is "unsafe" or "unfair" at one airline when at an alter ego subsidiary they accepted the practice for competitive reasons.
Just remember that pilots don't buy airplanes. We don't earn enough (particularly true in your case). Surely Comair's example frightens Pinnacle pilots, but consider their history. Comair took concessions to take ASA's flying during the previous decade, then more concessions to save their own neck. The age of their fleet and management inefficiencies took them out anyway.
Your pilot group will do better by steering a straight course through this storm, you can't out run it with concessions. Pinnacle's fate is up to mainline carriers' fleet plans, including possibly American's. I'm optimistic for you, but acknowledge little of what mainline management does on the small jet level makes strategic sense.
Perhaps the most sensible way to do an airline is to fly you own airplanes. Hope to see you at a mainline carrier flying passengers who's tickets have the same name on them that your paycheck has printed on it soon.
08-17-2012 | 06:07 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
Scambo,
Noone junior in New York can hold international anything. International categories, yes, but not international flying. The only exceptions are some 2007 hires that went on the 765 when the ER was still an ER, and haven't been disloged yet. And there are 164 pilots senior to me trying to get in there to dislodge them.
Noone junior in New York can hold international anything. International categories, yes, but not international flying. The only exceptions are some 2007 hires that went on the 765 when the ER was still an ER, and haven't been disloged yet. And there are 164 pilots senior to me trying to get in there to dislodge them.
My assumption is that he will be on reserve. Int'l category reserve at home opens him up to hard time trips on his off days. He doesn't have to take the crappy greenslip, he can wait for the better one. In base reserve bidding like Denny said gives him a level of control on his life that commuters can't even dream of...It is pseudo-seniority - living in NYC.
08-17-2012 | 06:12 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
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