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Old 09-16-2012 | 09:01 AM
  #110421  
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Just read SD's update... Blah... Blah... Blah... Are we going to hire or what? :-)
Old 09-16-2012 | 09:55 AM
  #110422  
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[QUOTE=forgot to bid;1260421]


But then this update from SEA came out and it brings up the question about what if things flowed not from the elected members up but instead flowed from the MEC down?

Quote:
Delta Council 54 Vice Chairman’s Perspective


The term “empty suit” is used to identify the ineffective manager, that person who is there to spout the “company line”, check the box, and not really listen. They take the “by-the-book" position that offers no flexibility to any constructive argument made. Even common sense is lost on these folks a majority of the time. Today’s empty suit is now best called a “robot." Following lines of code written by a creator, there is little or no flexibility in solving any real problems with a collaborative solution—just follow the checklist as written.


Your representative is still connected to you and is supposed to advocate for you in reaching a consensus position at the MEC level. This is supposed to be a democratic process, where it takes 10 votes senatorially or 50 percent plus one for a roll call vote to establish a majority position on the Delta MEC. However, if you find yourself alone in voicing the legitimate concerns of the pilot group to a disinterested majority, then no matter how compelling and reasonable your argument, your effort to represent the pilot group remains futile.


There are many times when you know you do not have the votes on an issue, so you seek to compromise. You try and make the arguments and move others toward your position and accept a majority position in order to achieve a partial victory on behalf of your constituents. Representatives make compromises, rather than demanding all or nothing, in order to achieve as much as possible within the democratic process. It’s not perfect, but that is how it’s supposed to work. National politics have morphed into the “win at all costs mentality. Politicians do not care about the collateral damage to constituents, and many of us have complained that government seems to be stagnant and cannot get anything done. Both nationally and on the MEC, one has to factor in human nature. What seems to be lost on the deaf majority is the benefit of constructive dialog, engagement, and decision making, rather than ignoring an opposing viewpoint that has the potential to provide a consensus solution.


Rarely is the consensus solution exactly what your constituents wanted, but the question to ask is if it achieved the most of what was asked for. If instead one misses the mark entirely, the result is a great deal of rationalizing and possibly recall or losing the next election. Elected representatives who only consider the administration’s position are not doing all that they can to achieve group goals. Advocating on behalf of others who trust you to do the right thing for them is naturally going to result in ruffling some feathers or even ****ing some people off; however, just like using CRM in the cockpit, you debrief after the flight or debate and realize it’s not personal. Every leg is a new flight and so should every MEC meeting start anew, the slate having been wiped clean after the debate and battle for positions and votes. Good CRM is not just for the flight deck, but should translate to the political arena as well.


This MEC meeting was the first after the split vote on the TA. There was a simmering anger from some members of the MEC, MEC committee personnel, and MEC administration over my vote of no, and the fact I wrote and expressed my view to this council.



So is this anger from others going to morph into deciding to ignore what I have to say? Finding solutions to complex problems amongst almost 12,000 pilots requires input from everyone.



If there is going to be retribution in the form of isolating a representative because you did not like their vote on an issue, what guarantee does the minority have that they will be heard in the future when they may be advocating the majority solution. How is this in the best interest of all of us?



Not wanting to become that empty suit or robot by just getting along, I decided to leave the CVG meeting after day two and headed back to SEA. Ron Morrell had my proxy for the remainder of the meeting. Fixing problems, finding creative solutions, and a willingness to listen to everyone is needed more than ever at every level of governance. With all of the challenges that we have to face as a group, every voice is important, even if it’s in the minority and of a different opinion. Does just the majority always have the best ideas? What happens when those who have been ignored stop participating and giving their thoughts and ideas? The membership loses the benefit of consensus decisions, which have a unifying effect on the pilot group as a whole.


Since returning home, I have been evaluating how I can best serve the pilots in SEA and what is in the best interests of my family. I have enjoyed representing this council and expressing my thoughts and ideas. Being snubbed for opinions and the votes cast, however, is not the best use of my time. Our time is valuable, and as we age it is more valuable than ever. What is truly in the best interest of the SEA council? In the coming weeks I will consider what will be the best course to follow for me, my family, and the Delta pilots.
Does anything else think that it's got not one iota to do with how he voted but how he characterized the other LEC reps? A good ole' fashioned southern lynching...

The majority on the Delta MEC would likely sell the rope to be used at our own hanging...


Old 09-16-2012 | 10:07 AM
  #110423  
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Most of the hiring and growth prognostications with LGA were generated by the MEC, Lee Moak in particular.

This is a different animal - the prosperity of our immediate futures is tied to Asia, and HND is in the cross hairs at the moment. Getting the SEA-HND slot won't nessicarily net us jobs, but losing it might cost us jobs, or slow down growth at the least. If the Japanese get away with isolating US flag carriers from HND while they use it as a primary O&D international port, the remaining beach and transfer traffic out of NRT will result in a huge pullback from Japan. Eventual 787 overflights will still not recapture the O&D we get with Fifth Freedom rights.

If we don't get access to HND and the international O&D I would anticipate furloughs, stagnation, and hiring pushed back for years until retirements eat up the difference.
Where did he say that jobs and growth would be created? This is from the chairmans letter he put out about it. It doesn't say there will be jobs, it says there would be a possibility for jobs based on mother d being able to leverage the swap. The swap was delayed 2 years or more delaying Deltas ability to get in and leverage it and allow the competition 2 years to work against it.

Your elected representatives have been engaged on the details of the proposed transaction from its earliest stages, and they are unanimous in the belief that the DOT should approve the transaction as originally proposed. In the weeks ahead, we will focus our efforts to that end. If the DOT order is implemented in its current form, the transaction will likely not go forward simply because the economic benefit will no longer exist. That will result in the loss of business opportunities for our company, the loss of increased choices for small and medium-sized communities and the loss of job growth opportunities for Delta pilots and our fellow employees.
"the loss of job growth opportunities for Delta pilots" - thats a promise of jobs?

From a labor perspective, much of the current and future success of our company is directly attributable to our sacrifices during bankruptcy. Without those sacrifices, our company might not have survived. Now, with the prospect of a slowly recovering economy and industry, we have the right to expect the federal government not to interfere with the legitimate business plans of our company. And as members of the largest pilot union in the world, affiliated with the 13 million-member AFL-CIO, we have the right to expect more from an administration that prides itself on being a friend of labor. We are not asking for special treatment; we are simply asking that our company be allowed to succeed in what is supposed to be a deregulated free market environment.


Old 09-16-2012 | 10:27 AM
  #110424  
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Originally Posted by Scoop
Sailing,

In general your post is correct with the exception highlighted in red. It was a huge "surprise" to 90% of the Pilot group.

Yes, mainline is slowly replacing the RJs and growing at LGA - this is great news. But do you honestly think most of us were not surprised with the 90% initial RJ rollout after our lobbying efforts?

And while I agree that we should all do our share and help out when able, this is the result of the perceived "bait and switch" on the initial LGA swap - many Pilots are now distrustful and a few will not participate in these programs any more.

In hindsight perhaps the company should have been a little more forthright about the initial RJ rollout. They have been pretty good about explaining it after the fact, but many feel we were initially mislead.

Scoop
90% of the pilots where surprised that regional service was going to be replaced with regional service? Even the Cranky Flyer dude knew that it wasn't going to be all mainline. Pilots repost all these news blog stories here all the time and everyone missed the fact that the aviation press was reporting the truth? I can't find a single article or press release saying there will be jobs and flights out of this just that Delta will benefit and that there may be a chance that we see more flying after they get done building the hub up with marketing and all that silly money making stuff.

Delta has been focused on “winning” New York, as we all know by now. This was going to let them serve more cities from New York than they do now, and they said it would also let them move some flights from JFK to LaGuardia in order to focus on the international hub operation at JFK. They were going to maintain flights to the markets which US Airways was leaving but they would use regional jets instead of turboprops.
Delta had to use the slots they got. The deal was delayed alot screwing up Deltas plan. Delta had plenty of regional jets doing nothing. Hindsight shows that the mainline flights are in fact coming. How long does it take to build a new mainline hub anyway? Did the pilots get screwed by delta or did we all make this into more than it was? No Haneda really means less Delta pilot jobs if I understand the issue correctly. This isn't a fool me once fool me twice thing.
Old 09-16-2012 | 10:30 AM
  #110425  
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Hook'em Horns!!

Damn, I wish I was a Corvette!
Old 09-16-2012 | 10:41 AM
  #110426  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
The true writer in you won't even let you spell it wrong!
I think you meant it's "their" not "thier".
LOL. Yeah, stupid autocorrect.
Old 09-16-2012 | 10:44 AM
  #110427  
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Originally Posted by Free Bird
Damn, I wish I was a Corvette!

You'll never get the smell out of the seats...not that there's anything -wrong- with that!
Old 09-16-2012 | 11:12 AM
  #110428  
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Originally Posted by Free Bird
Damn, I wish I was a Corvette!
Or maybe a baby blue pair of panties?
Old 09-16-2012 | 11:51 AM
  #110429  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
Just read SD's update... Blah... Blah... Blah... Are we going to hire or what? :-)
He's just keeping us in suspense. Of course we are! We signed the TA, and as SD said in his update when we were deliberating the TA, a YES on the TA was going to be, to paraphrase, a step that would very likely lead to hiring in the 4th qtr this year. I was worried that the concessions we gave up in the TA regarding more flying for reserves, SCs, and loss of X days during the summer months would mean a need for less pilots. But that concern was allayed by my union when I was told the improvement to vacation would dictate a need for more pilots. So rest assured, we're going to hear about it any day now--hiring is coming soon!
Old 09-16-2012 | 12:19 PM
  #110430  
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Originally Posted by Jesse
He's just keeping us in suspense. Of course we are! We signed the TA, and as SD said in his update when we were deliberating the TA, a YES on the TA was going to be, to paraphrase, a step that would very likely lead to hiring in the 4th qtr this year. I was worried that the concessions we gave up in the TA regarding more flying for reserves, SCs, and loss of X days during the summer months would mean a need for less pilots. But that concern was allayed by my union when I was told the improvement to vacation would dictate a need for more pilots. So rest assured, we're going to hear about it any day now--hiring is coming soon!
Speaking of, I found it a little troubling that the 717 aircraft will be based in DTW and ATL, but Crew Resources has yet to decide where the crew bases will be (other than ATL?!?)
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