Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-30-2012 | 08:31 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
Timbo, I agree with what you say in theory but I see a different reality. AA has just what you described very much like our contract used to be. They also have the highest pilot cost in the industry and get paid a lot less and they are in bankruptcy. The real truth in this hyper-competitive industry is we are all copying the SW model for productivity, you can have high pay and high productivity but you can't have high pay and low productivity, at least not for long. How many more routes would Delta pull out of if we were carrying. 1600 more pilots and how many junior pilots would DL put on the streets ?
I also miss the good ole days but I don't see us returning to them unless there is a return to regulation.
I also miss the good ole days but I don't see us returning to them unless there is a return to regulation.
Too bad we didn't copy the SWA model of premium pay for open time.
10-30-2012 | 08:32 AM
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From: B757/767
A buddy of mine at L-CAL is on the B757/767. He was flown to 130 hours of credit on reserve! In September!!!! I hope they get better rules on their new contract.
10-30-2012 | 08:33 AM
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From: B757/767
10-30-2012 | 08:35 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Good on you Timbo! I'm sure your daughter was happy you were there. I'm all about financial responsibility, and it's obvious you're just that. Otherwise you wouldn't be able drop those trips.
I don't think I'll ever understand why some want to work so hard. There are obviously exceptions, such as people with sick children or parents. But some are just money hungry. It's no wonder there's little unity in our profession.
I don't think I'll ever understand why some want to work so hard. There are obviously exceptions, such as people with sick children or parents. But some are just money hungry. It's no wonder there's little unity in our profession.
Well, don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to make what I used to make, in 2004! And I'd like to have the $1.4 Million DB money I had too. And only work 12 days a month, or less, to do it, like when we had a 75hr. cap.
But when we had that 42% pay cut shoved up our behinds, and lost the retirement, the wife and I had to make a whole bunch of lifestyle adjustments, ie. sell the toys (J3 Cub, bigger boat) and forget about a second home, or ever going to Europe on vacation, or a bigger boat, or, or, or...you name it, we aren't doing it. The kids college tuition take care of just about any left over money at the end of the month.
We still live in the little 1962 house, in the middle of no where, I bought as an F/O in 1997. Before bankruptcy we had plans to move to a place in Sarasota. Now we are probably going to live in a van, down by the river, after the last one gets out of the house.
But I'd still rather have the time off to go sailing, even if it's on a little, used, 16' boat, than be away more days. I'd like to see our pay come back to where it was, but US Air, AA and UAL are not helping us at all.
Too bad we don't have some type of a national organization where we could all get toghether and control our futures a little more...
10-30-2012 | 08:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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Last week I dumped a 33 hr. mil charter to FRA into open time, so I could be at my #4 child's diving competition. That cost me over $7,000, but she was very happy I was there, she was 2nd out of 29 so I was happy I didn't miss that.
The divorced guy who picked it up had over 120hr. for the month...
Geez, I wonder why he's divorced? I'm sure his ex-wife enjoyed her pay raise.
Oh, and I was out racing my catamaran when I could have been flying a 2 day worth 10:30, so that hobby cost me about $2,300 that weekend.
Life is about living...right?
The divorced guy who picked it up had over 120hr. for the month...
Geez, I wonder why he's divorced?
I'm sure his ex-wife enjoyed her pay raise.Oh, and I was out racing my catamaran when I could have been flying a 2 day worth 10:30, so that hobby cost me about $2,300 that weekend.
Life is about living...right?
10-30-2012 | 08:36 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: 737 ATL
There's an opportunity coming up to maybe slow down this trend of flying to the FAR max.
The FARs are changing and we are going to negotiate a Letter of Agreement to comply. Our work rules are going to undergo a major re-write.
We need to tell DALPA that we are "productive" enough. We're not bankrupt anymore. The pendelum should start to swing back a little more toward quality of life and quicker captain upgrades and less toward maximum flight time pick-ups and unlimited line values.
The FARs are changing and we are going to negotiate a Letter of Agreement to comply. Our work rules are going to undergo a major re-write.
We need to tell DALPA that we are "productive" enough. We're not bankrupt anymore. The pendelum should start to swing back a little more toward quality of life and quicker captain upgrades and less toward maximum flight time pick-ups and unlimited line values.
10-30-2012 | 08:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: right for a long, long time
Exactly! Thanks for doing the math for us. There is one other problem I see which is much more insideous...that is the 'perception' that you are making a ton of extra dough by flying all that extra time.
So when it comes time to renegotiate new pay rates, instead of looking for a MUCH HIGHER PAY RATE, you start looking for more loopholes, where you can FLY MORE! So instead of demanding larger pay restorations, we demand to be allowed to pick up more time! Just look at our last T/A, 4,8,3,3...and in 2015 we will still be wayyy behind our 2004 pay rates.
Oh, but we'll raise the ALV so you can pick up more time.
Brilliant!
And DALPA is more than happy to have -you- fly more hours per month, because their pay is based on how much extra YOU fly!
So when it comes time to renegotiate new pay rates, instead of looking for a MUCH HIGHER PAY RATE, you start looking for more loopholes, where you can FLY MORE! So instead of demanding larger pay restorations, we demand to be allowed to pick up more time! Just look at our last T/A, 4,8,3,3...and in 2015 we will still be wayyy behind our 2004 pay rates.
Oh, but we'll raise the ALV so you can pick up more time.
Brilliant!
And DALPA is more than happy to have -you- fly more hours per month, because their pay is based on how much extra YOU fly!
BTW, the increased credit/pay for training and vacation will pretty much offset the 1 hour TLV increase.
10-30-2012 | 08:47 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Timbo, I agree with what you say in theory but I see a different reality. AA has just what you described very much like our contract used to be. They also have the highest pilot cost in the industry and get paid a lot less and they are in bankruptcy. The real truth in this hyper-competitive industry is we are all copying the SW model for productivity, you can have high pay and high productivity but you can't have high pay and low productivity, at least not for long. How many more routes would Delta pull out of if we were carrying. 1600 more pilots and how many junior pilots would DL put on the streets ?
I also miss the good ole days but I don't see us returning to them unless there is a return to regulation.
I also miss the good ole days but I don't see us returning to them unless there is a return to regulation.
I agree, we were all (all the Majors) in a panic to survive after 9-11, willing to give them anything, with no snap-backs. And the CEO's took the opportunity to shove it up our butts, permanantly. Now Delta's posting record earnings (pat yourselves on the back boys, that's YOUR money!) and we get... 4,8,3,3 and very little increase in our DC retirement funding.
No wonder some guys want to lift the age to 99.
10-30-2012 | 08:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
there's an opportunity coming up to maybe slow down this trend of flying to the far max.
The fars are changing and we are going to negotiate a letter of agreement to comply. Our work rules are going to undergo a major re-write.
We need to tell dalpa that we are "productive" enough. We're not bankrupt anymore. The pendelum should start to swing back a little more toward quality of life and quicker captain upgrades and less toward maximum flight time pick-ups and unlimited line values.
The fars are changing and we are going to negotiate a letter of agreement to comply. Our work rules are going to undergo a major re-write.
We need to tell dalpa that we are "productive" enough. We're not bankrupt anymore. The pendelum should start to swing back a little more toward quality of life and quicker captain upgrades and less toward maximum flight time pick-ups and unlimited line values.
10-30-2012 | 09:10 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
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