I think I'll go with Bar, this whole thing looks a good bit rotten

 

Bar is not an ALPA hater. He even thinks we should keep them. I know this is how you guys behave in the ALPA echo chamber, but referring to disagreement as "hate" only serves to show your own chronic dysfunction. I don't even hate ALPA. I think they are a terribly bloated organization that is interested only in its own continuation, but I don't hate them.

Bar did no such thing. Bar did not lie. It is a lie for you to say so. Bar posted info from the very lawyer in question who is the one who said he is not on the state bar association. As soon as Bar found out he was a member of the DC bar association, he posted a retraction in large bold font.

It certainly does Pineapple. What should we think of your character when you call someone a liar and hater who understandably got something wrong, then immediately notified us of the error and posted a retraction?

Please keep being yourself Pineapple. It's very illustrative for pilots to see how our union behaves toward anyone who doesn't tow the party line. Keep up your blind devotion, and you yourself might get to the top of the pyramid scheme.

Carl

 

Just so you know, I never had the unrealistic expectation that the Delta MEC would take on tge actions of Lee Moak over the holidays. Nor did I expect to be able to out argue a $350, 000 a year, experienced, attorney. My goal has been to educate and shine a flashlight at our union's governing documents. That mission has been achieved.

It would be my preference that ALPA do a better job educating it's members on these matters.

 

Your continuation of this propaganda is very pleasing to the Dear Leader. You will undoubtedly get another medal. But I see that you and slowplay, and sailingfun, and alfaromeo have a bit of a surface area problem for any more medals.



Carl

 

PG's response here is in itself a great example of how one will defend an entity at any cost. Reading comprehension problem? Pot meet kettle! Carl just made an excellent point, and rather than acknowledge it or let it pass, PG doubles down with even more evidence of not understanding the written word in this case. Some must think as long as you're attacking and talking you haven't lost the point. Maybe for some, but the readers of this forum whether for or against the status quo can see through the obfuscation here. And as was pointed out, BB, in large bold font, corrected his point. But yet that's not good enough for PG. Normally, I'd watch this go back and forth without comment, but the chutzpah this took was deserving of a comment. I mean, when you were typing out that response you had to be thinking, "Well, he makes a darn good point. But we can't have that. And this doesn't address his point, and is intellectually dishonest, but I have to say something!"

 

I recommend you and BB get hold of a copy of Comair Letter 2005 Between ALPA and Comair Inc, look at the fleet guarantees and who the signatory's are. That doesn't mean it wasn't rotten then, but PNCL is definitely not precedent setting. Of course if you want to tilt at windmills you could ask who was the common denominator between the DAL MEC then and National now.........crap......what are those black helico.......

 

The drive to please the Dear Leader can be very strong.

But the drive to please Pineapple Gal can be even stronger!





Carl

 

Good point and agreed, although did the Admin manual read in 2005 the way it does now? My copy shows the applicable section was clarified "SOURCE – Executive Board October 2007; Effective July 16, 2008."

Not to parse words. I think the founders of our union realized we needed to work together to reach consensus, then take a unified front to management. The Administrative Manual provides a format for us to work together. By going at it separately and individually, we are not as strong and there is the obvious risk of one pilot group negotiating against the interests of another. The internal mechanisms for our union governance were important then and they remain important today. I believe we have improved our governing documents by our experience and the thousands of smart men who have worked on them.

So some will ask "why can't Bar just accept the consensus view?" Well, because, our MEC has never met on the issue nor reached a consensus view. We know the opinion of national and those who work for national.

Our union was built by and exists because of the work of the hands of its members. We members pay for what goes on at national and national should be responsive to us. I will be a bit surprised if the final determination of our MEC will be to remain silent while ALPA National does a cram down for a regional (or any) pilot group without our participation.

If you look at the general trend, our MEC has been moving in what I consider to the the right direction every March 1st. The movement is slow, but each progressive Delta MEC has been more receptive to the ideas and concepts that ALPA was founded on. We now understand outsourcing for what it is and how we facilitate it. That is a much more honest discussion than we could have had a decade ago. (... and while we disagree, I am deeply impressed with honesty of our MEC Executive Admin)

There are good people throughout the organization. Many of the veterans are nearing the point where we will thank them for their service and others will fill their responsibilities. In the next five years not only will Delta have a lot of retirements, ALPA will have a lot of retirements.

Our time horizon is a whole lot longer than those who would silence our voices.

 

Thanks for reminding me why I quit posting here. You six guys can go back to your ALPA bash fest.

 

Now that's the kind of Proletariat I could get behind

I would be happy to stand beside PG and try to sign up Southwest pilots (isn't he Air Tran ? I think, dunno). PG can be open minded until he gets his talking points, then there is no talking him out of them.

PG is a tough soldier. I'd like to have him on the side of ALPA's membership. Not sure what he's going to do when / if he's SWAPA. It will be interesting to see how he deals with the choice.