Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-09-2013 | 01:38 PM
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When you're saying this:
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
[1]You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
[2]And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
[3]I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
...are you suggesting this "Sink r8" would write the first paragraph only, or all three paragraphs?
I love having a ghost writer, but I want to make sure we're on the same page.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
[1]You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
[2]And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
[3]I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
I love having a ghost writer, but I want to make sure we're on the same page.
03-09-2013 | 01:51 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: DAL 330
DH,
I agree with most of your post but disagree with what is bolded - Sailing has more credibility than most on here. I don't always agree with him, for instance I think this displacement Bid blows. I was expecting more on the last bid and was told to wait for this bid. Now we are told to wait for the upcoming bids. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I am sick of the "good stuff" tomorrow crap - it has been going on for almost 12 years. For the guys upset how this last TA was sold it is nothing new, in 2003 we were shown Pilots required with the NW/CAL code-share vs Pilots without. Same crap as with this last TA - maybe it will happen someday - but as CCR says "someday never comes."
Sailing does tend to gloss over and belittle some of venting that many of us do on this forum and paints a lot of issues with a Pro DALPA point of view but so what? He has right to an opinion just as we all do - challenge him on the facts if you disagree with him. Sailing appears "factually" correct more often than not, however I believe a lot of us here, especially the FOs, are sick of being told how good we have it. To me this is more of an opinion and even though I disagree, I separate this from credibility, which I think Sailing has plenty of.
Scoop - Just my 2 Cents
Last edited by johnso29; 03-09-2013 at 03:27 PM.
03-09-2013 | 02:05 PM
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[QUOTE=Scoop;1368533]
Scoop,
Your probably right, that was a little harsh of a statement. Some of Sailings' posts have particularly been annoying to me past few days, but I shouldn't discredit him just because I disagree.
Is apologizing permitted in the "latest and greatest" thread?
Well Said RoadKill!!!
Sailing has little to no credibility as far as I'm concerned. Practically 80% of what he posts is biased and skewed. You are going to have to excuse me for not popping wood when he boasts about RFPs going out for near term wide body orders.
DH,
I agree with most of your post but disagree with what is bolded - Sailing has more credibility than most on here. I don't always agree with him, for instance I think this displacement Bid blows. I was expecting more on the last bid and was told to wait for this bid. Now we are told to wait for the upcoming bids. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I am sick of the "good stuff" tomorrow crap - it has been going on for almost 12 years. For the guys upset how this last TA was sold it is nothing new, in 2003 we were shown Pilots required with the NW/CAL code-share vs Pilots without. Same crap as with this last TA - maybe it will happen someday - but as CCR says "someday never comes."
Sailing does tend to gloss over and belittle some of venting that many of us do on this forum and paints a lot of issues with a Pro DALPA point of view but so what? He has right to an opinion just as we all do - challenge him on the facts if you disagree with him. Sailing appears "factually" correct more often than not, however I believe a lot of us here, especially the FOs, are sick of being told how good we have it. To me this is more of an opinion and even though I disagree, I separate this from credibility, which I think Sailing has plenty of.
Scoop - Just my 2 Cents
Sailing has little to no credibility as far as I'm concerned. Practically 80% of what he posts is biased and skewed. You are going to have to excuse me for not popping wood when he boasts about RFPs going out for near term wide body orders.
DH,
I agree with most of your post but disagree with what is bolded - Sailing has more credibility than most on here. I don't always agree with him, for instance I think this displacement Bid blows. I was expecting more on the last bid and was told to wait for this bid. Now we are told to wait for the upcoming bids. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I am sick of the "good stuff" tomorrow crap - it has been going on for almost 12 years. For the guys upset how this last TA was sold it is nothing new, in 2003 we were shown Pilots required with the NW/CAL code-share vs Pilots without. Same crap as with this last TA - maybe it will happen someday - but as CCR says "someday never comes."
Sailing does tend to gloss over and belittle some of venting that many of us do on this forum and paints a lot of issues with a Pro DALPA point of view but so what? He has right to an opinion just as we all do - challenge him on the facts if you disagree with him. Sailing appears "factually" correct more often than not, however I believe a lot of us here, especially the FOs, are sick of being told how good we have it. To me this is more of an opinion and even though I disagree, I separate this from credibility, which I think Sailing has plenty of.
Scoop - Just my 2 Cents
Your probably right, that was a little harsh of a statement. Some of Sailings' posts have particularly been annoying to me past few days, but I shouldn't discredit him just because I disagree.
Is apologizing permitted in the "latest and greatest" thread?
03-09-2013 | 02:15 PM
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Bogus analysis. You always spin it the same way, as if instantly the rise and fall of inventory of planes and pilots doesn't exist-- "If it was so bad, we would instantly on this AE see hundreds of displacements!"
WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
Also, it should not be a surprise that the poor economy in Europe that is causing a decrease in Atlantic flying is also not a result of the TA. We had well over a hundred (maybe close to 200) guys come back from military leave, that had nothing to do with the TA. The A-330's were scheduled to go to lie flat mods and that had nothing to do with the TA.
So you are trying to conflate everything negative about your career progression with the ratification of the TA. This is just a false argument.
These are the differences that occurred with the TA;
- Early out program that let about 200 pilots out early
- Work rule changes, some positive some negative, that cost about 125-150 jobs net
- Acceleration of 50 seat removals and addition of 717's (or other small narrow body) at a faster rate than without the TA
So you can rant all you want. If you want to blame the weather on the TA or SuperStorm Sandy or anything else you can. The problem is separating out independent and dependent events. Most on this forum simply lump all their problems, real or perceived, and then blame the TA for this. That is a false argument.
03-09-2013 | 03:11 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
vacation slide question
does minus move vacation earlier and plus move it later or vice versa?
does minus move vacation earlier and plus move it later or vice versa?
03-09-2013 | 03:18 PM
On Reserve
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03-09-2013 | 03:24 PM
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From: Capt
03-09-2013 | 03:27 PM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
03-09-2013 | 03:30 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
You never know. Some guys qualify their bids and it knocks them out. There are a lot of moving parts on this ae. Tons of training and tons of possible outcomes. If nothing else, it'll be interesting. I think the 717a will maybe make it to a 2000 hire.
03-09-2013 | 03:38 PM
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From: 7er
Any guesses on how many MD's, if any, will come off the bottom of NYC 7ERB now that the bid has been posted? Hoping to avoid training.
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