Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So nothing was changed in the DPWA but now another airline has negotiated a certain amount of RJ flying. Does SkyWest have an agreement with Delta to perform RJ flying? Does Mesaba? What's the real difference if it's negotiated with the managements or the pilots? Contracts come up for renewal and can be renegotiated.

I agree that it makes it that much harder to reel in scope and that sucks. Bringing regional jet flying to mainline would be ideal and I wouldn't be surprised to see it curtailed more in the next ten to twenty years with the hiring that's going to be done at all the majors on top of the new 1500 hour ATP requirement. On the whole, I feel it's moving in the right direction slowly but surely. My two cents.....

Denny

 

I don't think I am misunderstanding the issue. When I first entered this conversation it was to ask: What changes were made to the DPWA as a result of the agreement between Delta Management and the Pinnacle pilots? As far as I can tell..................nothing.

As far as the issue you state above, I DO think it was a bad precedent that another pilot group negotiated with Delta Management. Now do I think that our contract was violated by this separate agreement? No, I don't. Our contract allows for a certain percentage of RJ flying up to 76 seats by other companies. You are characterizing it as DL flying when, contractually, we have allowed this flying to be outsourced for years and the Pinnacle guys negotiated for their share of it.

Denny

 

"DL flying" that we've contractually negotiated away... If we contractually do not fly 76 or less seat jets, how do we have any say in who or what accomplishes that flying for DL?

 

I'm not sure if our contract guarantees us to be the only pilot group negotiating with DL mgmt... would be interesting to see.

The precedent set is a terrible one, but it's not surprising that Moak would take another MEC chair by the hand and go whistling right on by DALPA. Moak does what Moak wants, and has shown time and again he will do just that.

The issue is that we are supposedly in "scope recovery" and supposedly whittling down the amount of RJs- hopefully more in C2015. Now 9E has in their ALPA pilot contract a guaranteed not insignificant amount of DL jumbo RJs for 7 years. That is a very bad thing.

 

That is incorrect saying that we contractually do not fly 76 or less seat jets. We have pay rates for that aircraft type in our contract that 9E pilots are now contractually guaranteed to fly for the next 7 years.

It's not that we can't do the 76 seat flying via our contract, it's that we currently allow a certain amount of its outsourcing. Those are two very different things!

 

Actually.....I wouldn't. I'd get my car fixed and move on with my life. I've better things to do then fester and harp over what could've been. The problem with your analogy is that the system isn't broken. Everything we have is ours because as a group we approved it. Over 60% of our pilot group voted YES for this latest TA. And now it's our contract. Done. Over. We can't change it.

So while I enjoy and encourage sharing thoughts, I don't enjoy reading the same gripes, moans, and complaints about what is done. Choosing to not fly ALV+15 is now gone. The RJ scope has been changed. Over. We can either unite and decide how we want to fix it, or continue to mindlessly whine over something that 62% of our pilot group thought wasn't a bad deal.

If people on this board want to chew someone's ear off about scope, head over to the Alaska TA thread. Their NC decided to protect $$$ & their pilots in a merger scenario instead of establishing scope protection. Nothing stops Skypest, RAH, etc from flying 100 seat RJs as Alaska. NOTHING. And that's what THEIR NC chose.

FTB, I quoted you but this post isn't directed at only you.

Flame away. I'm used to it by now.

 

Yeah, and Ferd and his sissy cats can shove it and go fly the F-16 or whatever.

 

I've looked and have not been able to find that guarantee (unfortunately).

I agree, the precedent is not good.

Hopefully we are in a "scope recovery" mode and will whittle it down more/improve the ratio in contract 2015. 7 years is a long time. We'll have to see what happens.....

I think we both want to get to the same place, I just don't think I see as many bogeymen between where we are and want to be as you do!

Denny

 

I wouldn't say that I'm seeing bogeymen... I'm saying it is a major issue and conflict of interest when another pilot group (with their hand held by the ALPA national chair) goes and negotiates with our employer for guaranteed flying.

 

I got your sissy cat

An Arizona boy needs an Arizona cat........or at least I wish my homeowner's association would let me have one. Well, that and I guess it would be up in the air on if I would show up to fly each week



PS how do ya shrink this thing?? Sorry...........I hate guys who post oversized pictures