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Old 06-11-2013 | 05:51 PM
  #132481  
Purple Drank's Avatar
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
You all (if you were PMNW) conducted an impeccable 2-week strike,
A damn sight more than any Delta pilot has done.

And I am PMDAL.
Old 06-11-2013 | 05:57 PM
  #132482  
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr

But that should be done when the circumstances call for it. Right now they don't, and my having that opinion no more makes me a shill or "bend over" type than your voting no on a TA means you want DAL to go out of business tomorrow.
"Right now they don't?"

The company is making billions. Yet it cannot "afford" an industry-leading contract (granted, "our" "union" and 62% of my stalwart coworkers agreed to POS12).

Record profit this year
. Yet it continues to shirk its contractual obligations (granted, "our" "union" continues to bail management out).

So if not now is not the time to make a stand....when is? When the company is losing money?
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:00 PM
  #132483  
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
I'm just tired of guys bashing DALPA for accomplishing MORE outside of a strike than other groups have accomplished within one.
So it's your contention that DALPA has produced only improvements, and given nothing away?

I think we're done here.
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:02 PM
  #132484  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
A damn sight more than any Delta pilot has done.

And I am PMDAL.
The Comair strike kinda acted as a proxy. After losing $660,000 per RJ FO to resolve a difference that would have cost the Company ~ $15,000 per pilot, Leo Mullin wasn't eager to find out how much striking Delta pilots could cost him.

Of course, Leo's changed strategies, signed C2K and decided to bankrupt the Company. I understand Leo told the pilot who signed C2K on behalf of Delta that Delta would never see the top pay rates. Based on these statements, it is my opinion bankruptcy was planned either before, or shortly after, C2K's ratification (and I am not saying c2k caused the bankruptcy, but management was happy to amend it when they had the opportunity).

C2K scope did not make it 6 months before modifications were made to the percentages of permitted flying.
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:19 PM
  #132485  
Carl Spackler's Avatar
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23. ALPA represents regional carriers. ALPA used the Delta contract to benefit regional members. (35% ALPA new hires, 76 seaters)
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Really? 35% We hire over 50% from DCI. Its that whole unity of the profession thing that many get at DALPA I guess. I had no issue with this.
No, it's that whole giving up more 76 seaters which breathed new life into management's failed 50 seat RJ experiment.

24. ALPA is allowing AF/KLM Joint Venture Scope non-compliance through a poorly crafted contract.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Answered already. Not liking language is different than non-compliance
You know better than that. We are not in compliance now. Even DALPA has said we are not and management has no plan on how to become in compliance.

25. ALPA cannot stop trading scope for pay because it benefits its regional members.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Who votes for it? Pinnacle pilots? Oh yeah that's right us.
And who gives us all the information (or as I say, disinformation) to cast those votes? DALPA.

26. ALPA designated reps are paid 92 hours monthly for position they could hold plus a $1,500/$1,000 stipend. Super seniority.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Think its 87 which is the avg pilot credit per month per year.
It's 92 hours. And the claim of 87 as an average for line pilots is pure BS. We've been through this many times already. They came to that number by excluding line pilots who are paid less than 70 hours. Distorting figures to make your case is the ALPA way.

27. ALPA refuses to show the accounting books or officer names/salaries of offshore subsidiary Kitty Hawk Insurance Co.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
No idea.
It's true. Now I don't know if there is anything sinister in those books or names, but ALPA patently refuses to show it or talk about it.

28. ALPA National President received 2012 increase in total compensation from $540,408 to $576,968.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Think they explained this one in a publication to us. Plus up, and didn't his salary go down, but the reimbursements for business go up?
No, they didn't explain it. The LM2 is quite clear about what happened to Moak's salary. $576K is accurate.

Carl
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:19 PM
  #132486  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
C2K scope did not make it 6 months before modifications were made to the percentages of permitted flying.
Contract 2012 almost made it a full year before this scope waiver.
We must be getting better.
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:40 PM
  #132487  
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29. ALPA is $75M in debt. It is taking out more and more loans to cover legal expenses in multiple conflict of interest lawsuits.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Are they? Can DPA show that math
That's a good point. I don't remember seeing the calculations and references for this number.

30. ALPA’s first goal is to grow membership and associated dues income. Representing current members is secondary.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Wrong on all accounts, but getting APA and SWAPA to ALPA would help ALPA members. After all didn't SWAPA prosper with PFT and no pensions. Think ALPA would have promoted that?
Both of these are personal opinions...especially yours. I happen to fully agree that ALPA is all about growing the membership regardless of the means it takes to achieve that. But, that's my opinion.

31. ALPA has taken in and been responsible for over $3 BILLION in total income since 2000. Has only $39M in NET assets left.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
That's right. Its been flowers and sunny skies the last 12 years. Nothing has happened in our country to our pilots to need to spend any of it. ALPA National has not cut staff by 25% either
You forgot about the fact that ALPA has LOST a number of high profile lawsuits brought by their own members. Those damages cost ALPA a ton of money.

32. Minimum ALPA Designated Rep annual pay: CA Roberts - $283K, CA Van Sickle - $293K, FO Guilfoyle - $247K, FO Fries - $225K, CA Dominguez - $277K, FO Rogers - $247K, FO Olmstead - $225K, FO Coons - $229K – FO Nevins - $193K.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
They get what the Policy Manual allows. Its in black and white for all to see.
True enough. And those are some damn high numbers given those pilots' seniority.

33. Jobs promised in last contract. No hiring for all of 2012 or 2013. 757s to be parked and 737s will replace..…pay cut.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
Yep we did not hire. Sucks, but how do you force a company to hire when you are overstaffed and the pilot group overwhelmingly approved work rule efficiencies? Ever think this is what the pilots said to do in the survey? Made me wonder too.
There's one sure way to prove that Free Mason. Publish the survey results! I'm sure one of the top choices of pilots was to give up more productivity so we can operate with fewer pilots.

34. ALPA Reps stated that Delta had no more left to give in last contract. Delta gives investors $1 BILLION (dividend and buyback) as a result. ALPA should have listened to the pilots instead of pursuing different agenda.
Originally Posted by Free Mason
They did and sent it to us for a vote. We voted it in. A stable company is exactly why I'd vote in a new union.
What ridiculous spin. DALPA won't publish the survey results because it would clearly show what those 5 reps said...which is that DALPA did not negotiate via the pilots' survey. And yes we voted for it, but DALPA controlled the message and the communication to pilots for that decision. My opinion is that DALPA did nothing but provide disinformation in an attempt to save a poorly negotiated TA and keep themselves from being embarrassed and thrown out of office. They failed at that since most were thrown out of office anyway.

Carl
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:47 PM
  #132488  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
Cynicism aside..... Do you think 5000 of 900,000 is worth all this angst? If you do, you better think it through...

And personally I am not interested in punching the company in the nose. It is pointless to do so when they make all the decisions, and they usually hold the better cards. I've got my captain's seat. If you are comfortable putting yours at risk, then let's throw down.
Classic tsquare.

Embarrassing.

Carl
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:52 PM
  #132489  
Gets Weekends Off
 
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Do we do an ESV for Normal requal? The 88 letter is confusing. It says we do a systems validation, but it is not anywhere on my training schedule
Old 06-11-2013 | 06:55 PM
  #132490  
Gets Weekends Off
 
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Originally Posted by iceman49
At what point do you decide to enforce portions of the contract? How far do you let the violations occur until enough is enough? Why even have a contract, perhaps we should just be happy with what the company gives you.
If our pay was cut 25% tomorrow he would say you guys better shut up or it could be 50%.
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