Bucking Bar

Good post - that's the point - Should be on a brass plaque.

Bucking Bar

With AF/KLM flying 777's with DAL passengers, make that 100% of the list.

I have yet to see the JV language, but I hear good things about it.

We might have a deal with Japan Air Lines somewhere on the horizon. It is very important to get that right. JAL has pulled out of several asian markets and the result is some full Delta jets on flights like NRT/MNL

slowplay

You assert that there's been a continued outsourcing of our flying. Are you sure you're correct?

Total number of RJ's: Down.
Total number of DCI block hours: Down.
Total number of DCI pilots: Down.

Let's look on the large aircraft side. Has the JV with AF/KLM cost or created Delta pilot jobs? I assert it has created jobs, jobs that without the JV "outsourcing" otherwise would not have existed. Our access to LHR is a prime example. Could NWA have flown SEA, PDX and LAX without the AS codeshare? They brought that to the merger, along with A330 and B744 flying fed by those flights. Those are "super premium" jobs that wouldn't exist without the feed, and you've said yourself that it would be a fools mission to replicate organically what AS provides.

I disagree with your assertion that we can expect lower lows. I disagree with your position that scope hasn't gotten it's due diligence.

Bucking Bar

Slow,

Could you comment on all this talk of some sort of big DCI min standard contract flow (double staple) or whatever it is that all the regional guys keep talking about? What's the plan? Is it real? Is management on board with this thing?

Bucking Bar

Thanks for clearing that up & I did not intend to "put words in your mouth." Only trying to understand your post better.

Our MEC has done an excellent job of understanding the economics. By leveraging our cooperation with the merger we've received objective gains that no other pilot group have got, during a heck of a downturn.

If we get through 2011 and make it to the wave of retirements without furloughs, those who designed our agreement certainly deserve enormous credit.

Scoop

Slow,
I take your point as Scope, JVs, and code-shares can be a good thing for all, if carefully constructed - If this is correct - I agree.

As far as the number of RJs being down, its a good start. But when you look at DALs domestic system, especially compared to just a few years ago, it is still pretty disapointing from a DAL Pilot point of view. But, if its the begining of a geometrically increasing trend, then its time to crack open the good stuff!

Scoop

acl65pilot

Their ASM's are up.
I do not think that their number count is down from tighter scope. It is from the company seeing, for the time being, that the Rj's are too expensive. Like I have said before, this management team sees this, can we bank on the fact the next one will too?
Too early to tell. My question that I still have not had answered is this, " We are to share all of the North Atlantic growth with the AF/KLM JV 50/50. Does this mean that all of the routes we have had to abandon over the last year get split 50-50 when we reenter the markets?" If that it is the case it will cost International "Premium" jobs. I will submit that the inclusive nature of the JV Scope is a positive step in the correct direction. We need small jet scope worded the same way.
A route that is necessary for any World airline, but one that has been killing us. I agree that there are some positives with the JV with AF/KLM
I do not think that any one argues that there is some benefit to it. What irks the people I am talking to is, that with this code share we have in effect let AS fill the entire void on the West Coast. We are now giving them, rather quietly, some of our routes to Mexico. We can argue this all day, but the fact remains that it is not status quo. We are giving them routes, they are no longer just supplementing our service.


We have been experiencing lower lows. Look past the last few years. People want to see some intrinsic value brought back to this profession. The best way to do this is to shore up the bottom. If the foundation is strong, we can be safe to assume that we can build a bigger house. It may have gotten its due diligence from your perspective, but the pilots I talk to feel that no one is listing to their wants and needs. How do we change that? Do we tell them they are wrong?, or do we change the course of this ship?

I still assert that the majority of the large DCI flying could be done for the same out of pocket expense that DAL pays these DCI carriers. Add in the margins and we could do it for our book rates and DAL would gain the continuity of service that a World Class airline needs and its passengers should expect.

TOGA LK

But total DCI seat capacity was raised to 76 seats on a certain amount of AC. 125?

It makes sense that with a system overcapacity (supply side) the solution is smaller, more efficient jets that carry smaller groups to more specific destinations.

I partly blame the FAA for issuing so many 121 certificates. For awhile the FAA wasn't issuing new 135 certificates due to a lack of staffing to regulate that community. I have no idea how many airlines are in the US, it goes against the grain of capitalism to stop issuing new 121 certs. However, it would eventually self correct as the more efficient carriers survived. There is just too much overhead on this industry to ever get ahead and stay there as a company. In order to extract more from our careers at Delta, we need Delta to win. In order for Delta to win we have to inch and stay ahead.

Everytime a legacy builds a profitable route, a LCC rolls in and trims the profits.

slowplay

No, I can't comment, as I've never heard of a double staple. I know that there's been recognition on the part of many that the way things have worked in the past have been detrimental to the job security of both regional and mainline pilots. Comair used to be a 2000 pilot airline; it's got fewer than 900 operating now. Just 5 years ago Delta had 1060 pilots on furlough. CMR was hiring, but not DAL guys without seniority resignation. ASA is seeing their "legacy" costs creep up and is furloughing. Mesaba is looking at furloughs. PCL has a TA out for ratification that in many ways undercuts ASA's current book. Those are the economics of our time.

As I've said before, the Joint Standing Committee has been meeting, mostly in conjunction with Delta MEC meetings or other ALPA events (Safety week, Fee for Departure). What, if anything, comes out of those meetings is for those respective MEC's to communicate.

thrustsetrj200

Mesaba is looking at furloughs.

Correction... Mesaba IS furloughing. 110 pilots. Just received another reduction notice last week. 55 more to go (voluntary furloughs).