Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-02-2013, 07:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by Timbo
I won't make that myself this year, but I have been thinking about bidding right seat on it, just so I can be Number 1 in something! The problem with that is, you have to fly a lot of greenslips as a senior F/O, to break $300K, and 38% of that is going straight to Uncle Sam, and my other problem with greenslips is, you have to show up and fly them!
I prefer to stay home and go sailing on my off days, rather than rush to the airport for yet another 5-8 day trip.
I prefer to stay home and go sailing on my off days, rather than rush to the airport for yet another 5-8 day trip.
12-02-2013, 07:35 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
This nice lady was apparently at her grandkid's house Saturday night.
And they are 'Bama grads.
And they are 'Bama grads.
12-02-2013, 07:49 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
AE Posted. 87 CA bids 73N/320/M88, 75 FO bids 320/M88
12-02-2013, 07:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by Timbo
I won't make that myself this year, but I have been thinking about bidding right seat on it, just so I can be Number 1 in something! The problem with that is, you have to fly a lot of greenslips as a senior F/O, to break $300K, and 38% of that is going straight to Uncle Sam, and my other problem with greenslips is, you have to show up and fly them!
I prefer to stay home and go sailing on my off days, rather than rush to the airport for yet another 5-8 day trip.
I prefer to stay home and go sailing on my off days, rather than rush to the airport for yet another 5-8 day trip.
I'm not criticizing commuting (I used to myself and may again)--only that there are gray areas everywhere.
12-02-2013, 08:27 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by 76drvr
AE Posted. 87 CA bids 73N/320/M88, 75 FO bids 320/M88
12-02-2013, 09:04 AM
Wind the clock beoch
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
These guys are converted BEFORE training. That means they will get a pay raise in most instances, and get the ALV for sitting around watching TV.
Contrary to the drivel you often read here, DALPA often does hold the company's feet to the fire, and ensuring compliance with the contract is a nonstop job. The contract requires minimum staffing. Most categories usually exceed that comfortably, but in some cases, such as this one, the staffing would not be in compliance without such exceptional moves.
I can promise you the company is not happy about giving guys a pay raise and being unable to fly them, but they dug this hole and DALPA wasn't about to lift them out of it.
(To be fair, any union, including DPA would do the same, but I wanted to highlight that DALPA doesn't always sit around trying to solve the company's problems of their own doing--on the contrary, we ensure that the contract is followed even when the company would love to not do so).
Contrary to the drivel you often read here, DALPA often does hold the company's feet to the fire, and ensuring compliance with the contract is a nonstop job. The contract requires minimum staffing. Most categories usually exceed that comfortably, but in some cases, such as this one, the staffing would not be in compliance without such exceptional moves.
I can promise you the company is not happy about giving guys a pay raise and being unable to fly them, but they dug this hole and DALPA wasn't about to lift them out of it.
(To be fair, any union, including DPA would do the same, but I wanted to highlight that DALPA doesn't always sit around trying to solve the company's problems of their own doing--on the contrary, we ensure that the contract is followed even when the company would love to not do so).
Do you honestly think DALPA forced management's hand here? Please tell me what leverage they used? Did they threaten to boycott the next management birthday party? Threaten to inflate the rat in front of the G.O.? I'm being sarcastic here, but really, what threat could or did DALPA make to ensure compliance with the contract?
A "win" against the company in a contractual dispute over areas of our contract where terms such as "normally," "good faith," "reasonably," "reasonable," "best efforts," etc...make the language therein virtually useless, THAT, my friend, would be a meaningful win.
The early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
12-02-2013, 09:18 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,921
Originally Posted by index
PMFJI your victory dance, but this is hardly holding the company's feet to the fire. As you stated, this is contractual. It is a section of the PWA that is black and white. Even DALPA would've won a grievance here. If it was in the company's best interest to thumb their nose at this particular contract section and have DALPA "fly now and grieve later," they WOULD have. The company chose to take the hit now but it was because they believed it was in THEIR best interest to do so. You obviously want to make the case that DALPA stood up to the bully and punched him in the nose, but that's just not what happened.
Do you honestly think DALPA forced management's hand here? Please tell me what leverage they used? Did they threaten to boycott the next management birthday party? Threaten to inflate the rat in front of the G.O.? I'm being sarcastic here, but really, what threat could or did DALPA make to ensure compliance with the contract?
A "win" against the company in a contractual dispute over areas of our contract where terms such as "normally," "good faith," "reasonably," "reasonable," "best efforts," etc...make the language therein virtually useless, THAT, my friend, would be a meaningful win.
The early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
Do you honestly think DALPA forced management's hand here? Please tell me what leverage they used? Did they threaten to boycott the next management birthday party? Threaten to inflate the rat in front of the G.O.? I'm being sarcastic here, but really, what threat could or did DALPA make to ensure compliance with the contract?
A "win" against the company in a contractual dispute over areas of our contract where terms such as "normally," "good faith," "reasonably," "reasonable," "best efforts," etc...make the language therein virtually useless, THAT, my friend, would be a meaningful win.
The early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
It seems our assessment might not be correct.
12-02-2013, 09:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by index
PMFJThe early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
As for the PRP/ROPE issue, I'm not sure what your problem is. All PRPs were put at the bottom of their respective category, and we only agreed to the program in the first place to prevent the company from absolutely melting down due to the snowball effect of massive simultaneous early retirements. In fact that is exactly why I respect our DALPA leadership. They actually made a tough call (again, something never required of posters in forum-land) and ensured that there were a lot of protections in place to prevent the lesser of two evils from being anything other than what it was, which was a stopgap truly emergency procedure in an unprecedented and almost assuredly never-to-be-repeated scenario.
In any case that was 8 years ago. I prefer to focus on the present, while learning from the past. I hate to tell this to you, but if we had a crystal ball, I am certain that on that one issue at least (but perhaps not others) ALPA did the absolute right thing and in fact would do it again (not so much for LOA 51).
12-02-2013, 09:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Originally Posted by index
PMFJI your victory dance, but this is hardly holding the company's feet to the fire. As you stated, this is contractual. It is a section of the PWA that is black and white. Even DALPA would've won a grievance here. If it was in the company's best interest to thumb their nose at this particular contract section and have DALPA "fly now and grieve later," they WOULD have. The company chose to take the hit now but it was because they believed it was in THEIR best interest to do so. You obviously want to make the case that DALPA stood up to the bully and punched him in the nose, but that's just not what happened.
Do you honestly think DALPA forced management's hand here? Please tell me what leverage they used? Did they threaten to boycott the next management birthday party? Threaten to inflate the rat in front of the G.O.? I'm being sarcastic here, but really, what threat could or did DALPA make to ensure compliance with the contract?
A "win" against the company in a contractual dispute over areas of our contract where terms such as "normally," "good faith," "reasonably," "reasonable," "best efforts," etc...make the language therein virtually useless, THAT, my friend, would be a meaningful win.
The early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
Do you honestly think DALPA forced management's hand here? Please tell me what leverage they used? Did they threaten to boycott the next management birthday party? Threaten to inflate the rat in front of the G.O.? I'm being sarcastic here, but really, what threat could or did DALPA make to ensure compliance with the contract?
A "win" against the company in a contractual dispute over areas of our contract where terms such as "normally," "good faith," "reasonably," "reasonable," "best efforts," etc...make the language therein virtually useless, THAT, my friend, would be a meaningful win.
The early conversions that the company agreed to in this circumstance are simply low hanging fruit, so low that even DALPA could "win" it.
And as far as your assertion of DALPA not lifting the company out of a hole they dug, have you forgotten about the PRPs/ROPES?
12-02-2013, 09:36 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by GunshipGuy
Give him his celebration. When our union actually stands up to the company to abide by a part of the contract without negotiating an alternative solution that's a victory. Kind of like when I expect kudos from my captain for putting the gear handle in the down position.
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