Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-05-2014 | 08:45 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
I think it is, but I agree with Bar. How can you tell when you sign that you will agree to an extension? The company hopes that some of the people will be deterred from taking a positive step to stop the auto-extension, because they'll be averse to playing the fatigue card.
In reality, an auto-extension is not an extension at all, but a longer scheduled day that bypasses the intent of the rule.
The safe way would be to call the participants approaching a previously unforeseen extension, and get everyone's buy-in.
By the way, it's preposterous that we both have to sign the release to say we're good to go, but the language on good-to-continue is all about the PIC. If an F/O doesn't agree, he/she has to essentially disagree with the Captain, and again, play the fatigue card.
The whole process seems intellectually dishonest to me.
In reality, an auto-extension is not an extension at all, but a longer scheduled day that bypasses the intent of the rule.
The safe way would be to call the participants approaching a previously unforeseen extension, and get everyone's buy-in.
By the way, it's preposterous that we both have to sign the release to say we're good to go, but the language on good-to-continue is all about the PIC. If an F/O doesn't agree, he/she has to essentially disagree with the Captain, and again, play the fatigue card.
The whole process seems intellectually dishonest to me.
01-05-2014 | 08:53 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,898
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Trust me , lived it for the last few days. Very surreal to walk through a packed terminal and look out and see the ramp virtually deserted with aircraft at every gate. Some carriers had 5 hour holdouts. The 3 hour rule is what drove many of our cancelations to avoid the fines. We did have one flight wait almost 4 hours for a gate however it was international so allowed 4 hours.
FAR 117 did not help the situation. She rolled in with near perfect timing. It's rumored that one or two airlines simply ignored 117. As far as I could tell we flew 117 to the letter of the law and it helped kill us in JFK that night. Crews finally loaded and ready to push timed out as the tugs were hooked up.
It's not over yet with bad weather in several major hubs.
FAR 117 did not help the situation. She rolled in with near perfect timing. It's rumored that one or two airlines simply ignored 117. As far as I could tell we flew 117 to the letter of the law and it helped kill us in JFK that night. Crews finally loaded and ready to push timed out as the tugs were hooked up.
It's not over yet with bad weather in several major hubs.
I'm sure the numbers will reflect the need for something more to be done in JFK w.r.t. managing snow events and the impact on 117. All the money we've spent there and we might as well be back at T3 dealing with the rats and broken escalators. Sounds like it was quite the IROP. Maybe it's a good thing this happened right off the bat.
01-05-2014 | 08:54 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I'm sure everyone has instances where they realize over the marker ... this wasn't worth it.
01-05-2014 | 10:48 AM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Trust me , lived it for the last few days. Very surreal to walk through a packed terminal and look out and see the ramp virtually deserted with aircraft at every gate. Some carriers had 5 hour holdouts. The 3 hour rule is what drove many of our cancelations to avoid the fines. We did have one flight wait almost 4 hours for a gate however it was international so allowed 4 hours.
FAR 117 did not help the situation. She rolled in with near perfect timing. It's rumored that one or two airlines simply ignored 117. As far as I could tell we flew 117 to the letter of the law and it helped kill us in JFK that night. Crews finally loaded and ready to push timed out as the tugs were hooked up.
It's not over yet with bad weather in several major hubs.
FAR 117 did not help the situation. She rolled in with near perfect timing. It's rumored that one or two airlines simply ignored 117. As far as I could tell we flew 117 to the letter of the law and it helped kill us in JFK that night. Crews finally loaded and ready to push timed out as the tugs were hooked up.
It's not over yet with bad weather in several major hubs.
I am still living it.
Currently at the Roosevelt watching the Chargers try not to blow it. In the last 48 Hours:2 legs canceled, 1 into JFK, 1 out.
Diverted to BDL today as JFK temporarily closed today.
Rerouted to cover a NYC trip.
Reroute canceled because my duty day would be exceeded - OBTW the company did indeed count on the automatic 2 hour extension.
Rerouted again - this one looks like its going to stick.
I must admit - I had a 0545 P/U in MCO today which was 0245 body-clock and I really appreciated the new shorter duty day even if the 9:00 hours was automatically extended to 11:00.
Scoop
01-05-2014 | 10:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
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No, he should not.
But I overheard an FO tell his captain in LGA the other day, "hey man, I'm really tired. I'm not going to be able to extend."
The captain said, "OK, I'll tell the dispatcher you won't extend. But I'm going to extend."
For every captain that "gets it," there are several weenies who don't.
But I overheard an FO tell his captain in LGA the other day, "hey man, I'm really tired. I'm not going to be able to extend."
The captain said, "OK, I'll tell the dispatcher you won't extend. But I'm going to extend."
For every captain that "gets it," there are several weenies who don't.
In my mind a crew has to agree to go along, meaning all members are OK with stepping up to an extension, as opposed to someone having to take the bullet on stopping an "auto-extension".
You and Bar do bring an interesting point, in that we now have a financial dis-incentive to be the first to throw in the towel. You can just sit there, and wait out the other guy. Like out-running your friend trying to outrun a bear, you don't have to be good enough to fly, you just have to be less fatigued than the other guy...
Then you both fall asleep.
01-05-2014 | 11:02 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
No, he should not.
But I overheard an FO tell his captain in LGA the other day, "hey man, I'm really tired. I'm not going to be able to extend."
The captain said, "OK, I'll tell the dispatcher you won't extend. But I'm going to extend."
For every captain that "gets it," there are several weenies who don't.
But I overheard an FO tell his captain in LGA the other day, "hey man, I'm really tired. I'm not going to be able to extend."
The captain said, "OK, I'll tell the dispatcher you won't extend. But I'm going to extend."
For every captain that "gets it," there are several weenies who don't.
01-05-2014 | 11:24 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
I got this text from a friend a little while ago
It's melting down quick here. I just dh to an overnight to dh back. My capt has done nothing but dh since Friday. One was even scheduled when he signed in to dh to avl to cover the overnight and dh back. He called scheduling and they told him he had to do it. They won't answer and if they do they won't look at what your calling about. We need bodies and airplanes bad...
01-05-2014 | 12:34 PM
seeing the country...
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,014
Likes: 41
From: 73N A
I got this text from a friend a little while ago:
It's melting down quick here. I just dh to an overnight to dh back. My capt has done nothing but dh since Friday. One was even scheduled when he signed in to dh to avl to cover the overnight and dh back. He called scheduling and they told him he had to do it. They won't answer and if they do they won't look at what your calling about. We need bodies and airplanes bad...
It's melting down quick here. I just dh to an overnight to dh back. My capt has done nothing but dh since Friday. One was even scheduled when he signed in to dh to avl to cover the overnight and dh back. He called scheduling and they told him he had to do it. They won't answer and if they do they won't look at what your calling about. We need bodies and airplanes bad...
I know the wx is bad, but I think the airlines were gambling on not many delays and getting close to 9 hours or the min overnight, and getting hosed. A Delta friend of mine had that happen a few days ago, got to the overnight a few hours late - not enough for the 10 hrs rest so he was replaced, he overnighted and DHed back to base.
01-05-2014 | 01:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
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Southwest Airlines faced its worst nightmares Thursday at Midway Airport - Chicago Business Journal
01-05-2014 | 01:59 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
Looks like SWA may get to donate some $ for butts in seats too long on the tarmac.
Southwest Airlines faced its worst nightmares Thursday at Midway Airport - Chicago Business Journal
Southwest Airlines faced its worst nightmares Thursday at Midway Airport - Chicago Business Journal
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