Agreed. by the buddy bid triple pay scheme, do you mean giving them back recovery for OE? If so, bite your tongue, Sir!!

Depending upon how you do it. You could set it up so that the full flight counts as block time for scheduling purposes and aircraft movement under its own power would only count as actual. This would decrease the amount of 23 K. removals for overflying, but would not allow us to be scheduled for anything more than we are today. Would that be such a bad tradeoff for door pay?

They could offer us higher pay rates via pay banding in return for longer category freezes.

 

Some classy listening for my friday night Clamp Show participants.



They are called 2Cellos... their other videos are legit, too!

 

Correction - Exactly what you, me, and thousands of other Pilots have been hoping to read someday. And you were also correct to be a little skeptical about the generic "Good news in 4-6 weeks post." I also tend to be skeptical when I hear about these nebulous good news announcements, but I had a pretty good feeling about this one.

Scoop

 

If you drop 1 day in a 30 day reserve month with 17 on call days, does pay get docked 1/30th or 1/17th?

Thanks Scoop

 

Ferd
You better check on a couple things saying Back to plan A.

For bidding it counts against you, but after the award its subtracted out and you can white slip that training credit amount back.

So if you wanted a 12day trip but the training credit and trip value put
you over ALV plus 7:30 mins it will move onto the next line or bid group
since your over ALV plus 7:30

 

I think the two will more likely be linked, but if we get door pay first (say, as part of 117 negotiations…hopefully not in exchange for throwing reserves under the bus and gifting the company a 2 hour long call leash and early day one reports!) they will come for wheel spin up in round two.

 

Yeah I know. Its just such low hanging fruit that disproportionately benefits such a tiny empire of pilots at any one time. The old recovery system was redonk for sure and set up for massive company abuse, but I was suprised that we were able to get a complete no obligation release with the tack on ability to W or G slip above it. In busy categories a tiny group of pilots can push triple pay, but only as part of a system that we all enable equally. I just don't see that one very expensive item surviving the next round of constructive engagement when its one of the few remaining areas to generate more productivity in a way that is very likely quite easily palatable for the group in general.


Hmmmm. No, I still don't like it. That directly leads to the need for fewer pilots. I can't believe wheel spin up/taxi under own power even made its way into the new regs. Switching to that after the fact (almost all airlines use the start of pushback and have for a very long time) is a clear attempt to roll back some of the safety gains in 117 with dirty backroom lawyer tricks. I really hope we play no part in facilitating that. Door pay isn't worth it. Not to mention, once we agree to that precedent, the next time we're in negative pressure bargaining you know that's going to be the first thing they hammer. Fewer pilots needed and erasing some of the recently gained safety improvements with no additional safety added in for a couple minutes of theoretical pay. No thanks. I do worry we will walk right into that exact trap though.


Possibly, but if they go that route I think they will merely try and tinker with the definitions instead of the duration. Like perhaps keep a freeze at 2 years, but don't start the clock until you are "OK" qualled and released to the line, or something like that. Increasing the duration of a freeze would be much tougher politically than tweaking the definition of a freeze so if they attempt something in that area that is what I suspect they would try.

FWIW I'm not against door pay. If we can get it, great. But I'm very much against giving up anything block time related to get it. And we need to preserve the two most important elements of 117 WRT reserve QOL: nothing before noon on day one under any circumstance, and a longer than 12 hours long call. I think 19 fits quite nicely without being a concession over current language and the regs and solves the 3 hour notification issue. But I really hope we're not going to fall for some siren song door double edged door pay trick.

 

According to the blue truth published by SWAPA their duty period minimum is 5 trips per duty period . The pay per trip is 189 per hour. 757/767 pay is 220 at Delta. Our DPA is 5:15 or about 6 trips per duty day.

 

It did become low-hanging fruit during the pre-BK time at Delta when our reps were trying everything in the book to mitigate the massive pay cut. The problem then became that the senior FO to bids FRA every Tuesday (and remained in the right seat in order to be able to hold it reliably) no longer had any assurance that he would not instead be sent to DKR each week instead.

As I understand it, we bought it back in exchange for the 12-month new hire freeze, which will save the Company much more money than doing away with OE recovery cost.

It would lead to incrementally fewer pilots to the extent that fewer pilots go illegal and so there are fewer reserve and/or premium pay duty periods assigned as a result. In terms of this being anything new, the definition of flight time under the FARs has always been aircraft movement under its own power. It's just that most airlines have not had the technology to measure that, and so have long over-counted their pilots' flight time.

 

While their duty period minimum is 5 trips per day, their ADG is 6.5 trips (or about 5:40) per day. The former is a minimum per duty period, the latter is a calendar day average throughout a rotation.