Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-10-2014 | 06:22 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: A somewhere
Where is this wheel pay rumor coming from? I talked to a rep and he has heard nothing. The FAR's state flight time is logged from the first movement of the aircraft with intent for flight. It starts at pushback. The contract says the exact same thing as far as how we get paid. Is this another version of forum hysteria that seems so common?
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Yes, I know of at least one airline that used forward movement on the 777 as the trigger mechanism for pay purposes. What I don't know is if they still do after their union filed a grievance against the company. It is not paranoia if they are actually out to get you
03-10-2014 | 06:24 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Completely agree. What did we give up to get the rules changed? I have dropped three trips since 2008 to cover TOE's. One of them a 3 day CAI worth almost 24 hours. Not only have FO's benefited from this, but going back to abrogating seniority for senior FO's is a non starter for me. No more give backs, PERIOD.....
03-10-2014 | 06:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: A somewhere
03-10-2014 | 06:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: 767-400
Class 3 rest facility
means a seat in an aircraft cabin or flight deck that reclines at least 40 degrees and provides leg and foot support.
03-10-2014 | 06:37 AM
Everyday is a weekend!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 317
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From: Seasonal Help
Just to let you know - Flightline (Easybid) has made a tremendous turn-around this year. I submitted my order for last year's expense report this morning and in less than 30 minutes it was in my inbox. The great part about Flightline is that you don't have to submit anything, they pull the data straight from the airline.
03-10-2014 | 07:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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I have to say, this has become a very interesting debate over a topic I really never thought I would hear pilots complaining about. (I should have known better)
So, to break it down. Pilot A gets a good deal because he has decided to stay senior in category. Pilot B, although at some point, or even possibly now could bid a category to give him the same option, would rather take away the pilot A's (and every pilots) potential option and redistribute that among the other pilots.
Where do we stop with this line of thinking? Those senior 777 guys who get weekends, holidays, and get to fly to places other than MLU? Do we start breaking up that club as well and giving that time off to the rest of the pilot group?
This almost sounds like that debate where a pilot wanted to increase the reserves required on the weekends where pilots wouldn't be able to drop trips and less green slips would go out (therefore giving a reserve less chance of flying on the weekend). Really?
For what it is worth, I am neither neither senior in category or an FO, but I would be against taking away the current recovery rules for them.
So, to break it down. Pilot A gets a good deal because he has decided to stay senior in category. Pilot B, although at some point, or even possibly now could bid a category to give him the same option, would rather take away the pilot A's (and every pilots) potential option and redistribute that among the other pilots.
Where do we stop with this line of thinking? Those senior 777 guys who get weekends, holidays, and get to fly to places other than MLU? Do we start breaking up that club as well and giving that time off to the rest of the pilot group?
This almost sounds like that debate where a pilot wanted to increase the reserves required on the weekends where pilots wouldn't be able to drop trips and less green slips would go out (therefore giving a reserve less chance of flying on the weekend). Really?
For what it is worth, I am neither neither senior in category or an FO, but I would be against taking away the current recovery rules for them.
03-10-2014 | 07:13 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
It warms my heart to hear captains who feel that way.
Unfortunately, guys like tsquare will gladly give up recovery, scope, and pretty much anything else affecting F/Os (and themselves--but they can't be convinced of that) if it means they can get a couple more bucks an hour.
Unfortunately, guys like tsquare will gladly give up recovery, scope, and pretty much anything else affecting F/Os (and themselves--but they can't be convinced of that) if it means they can get a couple more bucks an hour.
03-10-2014 | 07:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Permanently scarred
I don't think you're paying attention. Every rep I've spoken with, and everything they've put out to us, has been clear. The PWA supersedes policy.
Here's the guidance from the DTW reps:
Lacking a negotiated agreement stating otherwise, ALPA believes that the PWA language should be enforced and will “vigorously represent” a pilot who is removed from an assignment and is
subsequently penalized by having a PD (Personal Drop = loss of a day’s pay) placed on their
schedule, and being required to have a “talk” with a Chief Pilot,
Here's the guidance from the MSP reps:
Although ALPA has been engaged in negotiations for over 2 months with Flight Ops to achieve mutually acceptable changes to our PWA to reconcile the differences between the current PWA language and the new restrictions under FAR 117, an agreement has not been reached. Flight Ops has instituted a policy that instructs pilots to self-notify for assignments that ensures compliance with FAR 117, but this policy also infringes upon the terms of our PWA. In those situations where pilots are ineligible to accept an assignment for failing to comply with Flight Ops policy, a Personal Drop (PD) is being placed on the pilot’s line, which can have a negative effect on the pilot’s pay. If there is a CPR (Chief Pilot Review) placed on your line, you will need to speak to a chief pilot before any additional flying will be assigned to you. Because the policy unilaterally changes PWA language that is clear and unambiguous, we are committed to protecting pilots who are penalized for complying with our PWA.
If you are given a PD in response to an assignment notification that is in compliance with our PWA, please notify us immediately.
While we are working to reach an agreement, please remember policy cannot supersede the PWA.
Read that last sentence from the MSP reps carefully.
As I understand it, many pilots on reserve are acknowledging assignments earlier than required by the PWA because it benefits them (hotels, commuting timing, etc). I also understand no pilots have lost pay from a failure to comply with the policy.
Here's the guidance from the DTW reps:
Lacking a negotiated agreement stating otherwise, ALPA believes that the PWA language should be enforced and will “vigorously represent” a pilot who is removed from an assignment and is
subsequently penalized by having a PD (Personal Drop = loss of a day’s pay) placed on their
schedule, and being required to have a “talk” with a Chief Pilot,
Here's the guidance from the MSP reps:
Although ALPA has been engaged in negotiations for over 2 months with Flight Ops to achieve mutually acceptable changes to our PWA to reconcile the differences between the current PWA language and the new restrictions under FAR 117, an agreement has not been reached. Flight Ops has instituted a policy that instructs pilots to self-notify for assignments that ensures compliance with FAR 117, but this policy also infringes upon the terms of our PWA. In those situations where pilots are ineligible to accept an assignment for failing to comply with Flight Ops policy, a Personal Drop (PD) is being placed on the pilot’s line, which can have a negative effect on the pilot’s pay. If there is a CPR (Chief Pilot Review) placed on your line, you will need to speak to a chief pilot before any additional flying will be assigned to you. Because the policy unilaterally changes PWA language that is clear and unambiguous, we are committed to protecting pilots who are penalized for complying with our PWA.
If you are given a PD in response to an assignment notification that is in compliance with our PWA, please notify us immediately.
While we are working to reach an agreement, please remember policy cannot supersede the PWA.
Read that last sentence from the MSP reps carefully.
As I understand it, many pilots on reserve are acknowledging assignments earlier than required by the PWA because it benefits them (hotels, commuting timing, etc). I also understand no pilots have lost pay from a failure to comply with the policy.
Two questions:
1. Has a grievance been filed?
2. Can a reserve pilot who has had a "PD" placed on his/her schedule for complying with the PWA, but not SD's policy (i.e. acknowledged the trip inside 10 hours, but within 3 hours) tell us here if they've had pay deducted as a result?
If RES pilots are getting "PD" put on their schedules for complying with the PWA, but not the SD edict and yet are still getting paid then I completely understand the justification for not filing a grievance. But if the pilots are not being paid for that reserve day where they get a "PD" (most likely the case, right?), then why hasn't a grievance been filed?
03-10-2014 | 07:51 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
03-10-2014 | 07:53 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
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