Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-10-2014, 09:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by RonRicco
For what it is worth, I am neither neither senior in category or an FO, but I would be against taking away the current recovery rules for them.
03-10-2014, 09:23 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
I think what makes the OE removal/recovery deal a hot topic is that the two solutions we've had are so extreme. Paid to stay home is so sweet, assigned the worst trip in the bid package as recovery so awful.
How do other majors do it? If they had a clue how many OEs/TOEs and when, could they build and set aside LCA trips, then only have to buy a limited number of trips beyond the planned ones? Not trying to ruin someone's good deal, just looking for some middle ground.
How do other majors do it? If they had a clue how many OEs/TOEs and when, could they build and set aside LCA trips, then only have to buy a limited number of trips beyond the planned ones? Not trying to ruin someone's good deal, just looking for some middle ground.
03-10-2014, 09:25 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by gloopy
117 negotiations will give something up, and obviously its the 3 hours prior thing that will be gone in exchange for something else. Nothing before noon on day one better remain though, as should a much longer long call. I like 19 hours as that scales very well with no concession and provides structure for the company while still preserving plenty of circadian "black out" time during a window for rest/safety.
Where is the concession in any of that?
Where is the concession in any of that?
That's not what the rumors are saying though.
If we end up eating SD's memo in exchange for "door pay" I'm going to need a lot more details.
We'll see I guess.
In the mean time it sure would be nice to hear from ALPA where we stand on this personal drop / loss of pay thing. Is management enforcing the memo or not? Are we on SD's two hour rolling leash for long call or are we not?
03-10-2014, 09:37 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,232
Originally Posted by Cubdrick
Unfortunately, I can say that I received a "P/D" without pay last month. During a red-eye commute, I was assigned a 1500 sign-in. I acknowledged 20 minutes after landing at 0535. I called scheds to inform them of being inside the 10 hours window so they gave me a "P/D."
When I inquired with DALPA, they said they wouldn't take up the issue since their records showed I didn't check my schedule after 1500 base time the day prior to starting reserve. I was watching "Daily Trips Covered" but neglected to view "Current Schedule." I can't back it up with timestamps, but my dropped rotation was awarded sometime during my commute. I guess I didn't comply with schedule checking requirements, but see it as a moot point due to when the trip was assigned (sometime between midnight and 0300 base time).
= Free day off with no pay.
When I inquired with DALPA, they said they wouldn't take up the issue since their records showed I didn't check my schedule after 1500 base time the day prior to starting reserve. I was watching "Daily Trips Covered" but neglected to view "Current Schedule." I can't back it up with timestamps, but my dropped rotation was awarded sometime during my commute. I guess I didn't comply with schedule checking requirements, but see it as a moot point due to when the trip was assigned (sometime between midnight and 0300 base time).
= Free day off with no pay.
As for me I was given a SC and did not acknowledge until 9 hrs prior. I had a discussion with a supervisor as the first scheduler who wanted me either to take the original start to the sc as I called in voluntarily even though it was less than 10 hrs, or take a PD. The supervisor slipped the sc so I would be in compliance, but it took a bit of talking and coming up with alternatives.
03-10-2014, 09:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by Check Essential
If that's how it goes then mark me down as a yes.
That's not what the rumors are saying though.
That's not what the rumors are saying though.
If we end up eating SD's memo in exchange for "door pay" I'm going to need a lot more details.
We'll see I guess.
We'll see I guess.
In the mean time it sure would be nice to hear from ALPA where we stand on this personal drop / loss of pay thing. Is management enforcing the memo or not? Are we on SD's two hour rolling leash for long call or are we not?
Maybe its getting nebulous because we're getting close to an agreement, who knows. Perhaps the unpaid PD's out there are being hoarded for a massive group grievance if we can't work together in negotiations. I agree I'd like to see better updates over just more updates.
03-10-2014, 09:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: #41
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
I thought 117 made the 3 pm check on the last day off an illegal item? The FAR said you can't be compelled to do anything for the company on your days off. So how did DALPA use that as an excuse not to grieve
"The Scheduling Committee has completed a review of your schedule and schedule history.
PWA 23 S.1.d requires a reserve pilot to check his schedule via DBMS or VRU no later than 0200 base time on his first on-call day, and PWA 23 S.5.e.2 allows the company to place a rotation or short call on your reserve day nine hours before the end of his last non-fly day. Thus, a reserve pilot must check his schedule between 1500 of his last non-fly day and 0200 of his first on-call day.
Your schedule history shows that you checked your schedule on 12Feb (your last non-fly day) at 1312 base time, and again on 13 Feb at 0348. Unfortunately, because there is no record of you performing your required schedule check after 1500 base time on your last non-fly day and before 0200 on your first on-call day, we are unable to pursue having the PD removed from your schedule.
I know it’s not what you wanted to hear, but I hope I’ve cleared it up for you."
Prior to 117, even without checking my schedule properly, I would have legally flown the flight and had been paid. If I had checked my schedule, at 3:01pm would the trip still have been assigned during my red-eye commute....who knows?
03-10-2014, 09:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,315
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
I thought 117 made the 3 pm check on the last day off an illegal item? The FAR said you can't be compelled to do anything for the company on your days off. So how did DALPA use that as an excuse not to grieve
As for me I was given a SC and did not acknowledge until 9 hrs prior. I had a discussion with a supervisor as the first scheduler who wanted me either to take the original start to the sc as I called in voluntarily even though it was less than 10 hrs, or take a PD. The supervisor slipped the sc so I would be in compliance, but it took a bit of talking and coming up with alternatives.
As for me I was given a SC and did not acknowledge until 9 hrs prior. I had a discussion with a supervisor as the first scheduler who wanted me either to take the original start to the sc as I called in voluntarily even though it was less than 10 hrs, or take a PD. The supervisor slipped the sc so I would be in compliance, but it took a bit of talking and coming up with alternatives.
03-10-2014, 10:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,315
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
I thought 117 made the 3 pm check on the last day off an illegal item? The FAR said you can't be compelled to do anything for the company on your days off. So how did DALPA use that as an excuse not to grieve
As for me I was given a SC and did not acknowledge until 9 hrs prior. I had a discussion with a supervisor as the first scheduler who wanted me either to take the original start to the sc as I called in voluntarily even though it was less than 10 hrs, or take a PD. The supervisor slipped the sc so I would be in compliance, but it took a bit of talking and coming up with alternatives.
As for me I was given a SC and did not acknowledge until 9 hrs prior. I had a discussion with a supervisor as the first scheduler who wanted me either to take the original start to the sc as I called in voluntarily even though it was less than 10 hrs, or take a PD. The supervisor slipped the sc so I would be in compliance, but it took a bit of talking and coming up with alternatives.
03-10-2014, 10:09 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Where exactly did you see that on FAR 117? I have read the rule and don't recall that. It does then require 10 hours free of duty prior to reporting for a FDP but nothing in 117 prohibits a mandatory schedule check.
03-10-2014, 10:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
I think what makes the OE removal/recovery deal a hot topic is that the two solutions we've had are so extreme. Paid to stay home is so sweet, assigned the worst trip in the bid package as recovery so awful.
How do other majors do it? If they had a clue how many OEs/TOEs and when, could they build and set aside LCA trips, then only have to buy a limited number of trips beyond the planned ones? Not trying to ruin someone's good deal, just looking for some middle ground.
How do other majors do it? If they had a clue how many OEs/TOEs and when, could they build and set aside LCA trips, then only have to buy a limited number of trips beyond the planned ones? Not trying to ruin someone's good deal, just looking for some middle ground.
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