That's what I'm worried about as well.

I don't think they make enough details to justify that. Keeping LC at 12 hours while adding a rolling 2 hour mandatory acknowledgement leash is unacceptable. Door pay isn't even close to making up for that.

I was under the impression that most PD cases were resolved with pay after a phone call. There were a few others that "stuck" but some have said they were slightly different circumstances.

Maybe its getting nebulous because we're getting close to an agreement, who knows. Perhaps the unpaid PD's out there are being hoarded for a massive group grievance if we can't work together in negotiations. I agree I'd like to see better updates over just more updates.

 

Here is an excerpt of the reply email when I asked for P/D pay....

"The Scheduling Committee has completed a review of your schedule and schedule history.

PWA 23 S.1.d requires a reserve pilot to check his schedule via DBMS or VRU no later than 0200 base time on his first on-call day, and PWA 23 S.5.e.2 allows the company to place a rotation or short call on your reserve day nine hours before the end of his last non-fly day. Thus, a reserve pilot must check his schedule between 1500 of his last non-fly day and 0200 of his first on-call day.

Your schedule history shows that you checked your schedule on 12Feb (your last non-fly day) at 1312 base time, and again on 13 Feb at 0348. Unfortunately, because there is no record of you performing your required schedule check after 1500 base time on your last non-fly day and before 0200 on your first on-call day, we are unable to pursue having the PD removed from your schedule.

I know it’s not what you wanted to hear, but I hope I’ve cleared it up for you."

Prior to 117, even without checking my schedule properly, I would have legally flown the flight and had been paid. If I had checked my schedule, at 3:01pm would the trip still have been assigned during my red-eye commute....who knows?

 

Double post

 

Where exactly did you see that on FAR 117? I have read the rule and don't recall that. It does then require 10 hours free of duty prior to reporting for a FDP but nothing in 117 prohibits a mandatory schedule check. The FAR does not care about your days off. You are either working or at rest. The schedule check violates your rest hence the reason you can't now be given a trip prior to 12 noon on the first day of a reserve block.

 

117 doesn't prohibit them from requiring us to check our schedules on off days. Contractually you still have to check your schedule between 1500 and 0200 prior to your first day of on call days. So if you wait and check it at 0200 you are good. You then have to have 10 hours of rest before a report which is why they can no longer give us anything before 1200 on our first day. That is the way I understand it to work.

 

Is the OE recovery something that is actually being talked about with the company or is this a web board generated discussion point? IMHO this is not even worthy of discussion, and should be relegated to the wastebasket.

 

Can they give you short call at 11:30 on your first day after a day off? If you don't acknowledge until 0159, how does that work? They've just started doing this...

 

[QUOTEhttp://www.airlinepilotforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1599365=sailingfun;1599 365]Where exactly did you see that on FAR 117? I have read the rule and don't recall that. It does then require 10 hours free of duty prior to reporting for a FDP but nothing in 117 prohibits a mandatory schedule check. The FAR does not care about your days off. You are either working or at rest. The schedule check violates your rest hence the reason you can't now be given a trip prior to 12 noon on the first day of a reserve block.[/QUOTE]

From the FAA 177 Q and A document.

A4A asked whether a requirement in
the collective bargaining agreement to
check a schedule or calendar, or to
acknowledge a trip assignment, is
considered duty.
Section 117.3 defines duty as ‘‘any
task that a flightcrew member performs
as required by the certificate holder
* * *’’ Thus, if a certificate holder
requires that a flightcrew member check
a schedule or calendar, or acknowledge
a trip assignment, then the flightcrew
member’s compliance with that
requirement would be considered duty.
The collective bargaining agreement has
no impact on this analysis, as this
agreement simply provides the legal
basis for the certificate holder to require
a flightcrew member to perform certain
actions.


To me this means if i am required to check my schedule, I must be given a duty period. This would be a problem as a) if I check between 1500-2359 (off day), it would trigger a duty period...per the PWA I do not think I can be given a duty period on my day off (without premium pay) and b) if i check between 0000-0200 (on-call), I must be given 10 hours of rest, assuming I wait until 0159 to check it triggers an earliest start time of 1200.

A voluntary check is not illegal, it is just that the company can not require it. They have a couple options, put an early show on your schedule and hope you accept it (and possibly have to burn a SC pilot or had out a GS if you don't) or just assume a worst case scenario of a 0159 check and not hand out anything until 1200.

 

From the FAA 177 Q and A document.

A4A asked whether a requirement in
the collective bargaining agreement to
check a schedule or calendar, or to
acknowledge a trip assignment, is
considered duty.
Section 117.3 defines duty as ‘‘any
task that a flightcrew member performs
as required by the certificate holder
* * *’’ Thus, if a certificate holder
requires that a flightcrew member check
a schedule or calendar, or acknowledge
a trip assignment, then the flightcrew
member’s compliance with that
requirement would be considered duty.
The collective bargaining agreement has
no impact on this analysis, as this
agreement simply provides the legal
basis for the certificate holder to require
a flightcrew member to perform certain
actions.


To me this means if i am required to check my schedule, I must be given a duty period. This would be a problem as a) if I check between 1500-2359 (off day), it would trigger a duty period...per the PWA I do not think I can be given a duty period on my day off (without premium pay) and b) if i check between 0000-0200 (on-call), I must be given 10 hours of rest, assuming I wait until 0159 to check it triggers an earliest start time of 1200.[/QUOTE]

I think that per the PWA, we are still required to perform the check between 1500 and 0200 base time, and as the above interpretation states, we are required by our agreement to perform that action. But we never have been specifically compensated for that. For purposes of rest, it is considered duty to perform that check, and thusly I agree that the earliest they could schedule another duty period, ie: short call, would be 1200 base time if they are to abide by the 0200 limit. Acknowledging earlier would be voluntary, I suppose.

 

I agree that we are still required to check per the PWA, but it brings up a few issues. 1. A check between 1500-2359 must be voluntary as it is on your day off. A morning trip assigned between these times is a gamble for the schedulers. If you don't ack they have no recourse as you have not yet violated the PWA and they may be in a pickle trying to cover the trip last minute. 2. This leaves the only time you are absolutely required to check the period from 0000-0200. If that is considered a requirement from the company, are we required to have a (1 minute??) duty period posted on our schedule with all the baggage that comes with that? If not all checks between this time must also be considered voluntary; therefore making the whole schedule check section essentially void.

This means that the only way the company can assign a trip is to call after 0000. Of course this triggers the catch-22 that you are not required to ack until 3 hrs. prior, but must have the 10 hr rest period.

The only way scheduling could make this work and fully be in compliance without you "volunteering" for anything is to place a small duty period and associated rest on your schedule at the exact time you check between 0000 and 0159.

I think there are a lot of different ways to interpret all this stuff and it will take awhile to get it all sorted out.