Originally Posted by alfaromeo

I guess you think making insults gives you a better argument. It doesn't, it just makes you look childish. What you want is for the reps to represent the will of the council. That means the whole council. People that show up at LEC meetings are PART of that council. In the case of this resolution, it was obvious that a concerted effort was made to pack the meeting with people who had a strong feeling about the matter. Just because you packed the meeting and passed a resolution it does not mean that it represents the will of the council. Now you want to start a hissy fit because you didn't get your way. Boo hoo.

So, do you want the elected reps to represent the entire will of the council, or just the people that organize to pack one LEC meeting? I am sure that the reps considered that resolution as representing those pilots views, but it is arrogant to think that you can organize a small group and have that push around the entire council.

You talk about this big change in the union. As far as I can tell, in Council 44, there is only one guy running for reelection. I think that means there will be turnover no matter what. I don't know about council 20. Being a rep is hard work and I am sure that many of the current reps are ready to go back to line flying.

I have seen this many times before. You get a small group on web boards or organized to pack a meeting and they now think they own the whole union. Good luck with that. Maybe you think tossing around insults gets you better results. Good luck with that. A good rep will sound out the entire council and not just listen to those voices that are the loudest and most insulting.

My advice to you is to grow up. You don't convince anyone with your insults and you make yourself look like a fool. If you want to effect change then do some work. Yelling insults on the web board is a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Alpha,

Again, I agree with alot of what you say, I bolded the above because that is the basis of this whole discussion. A representative is there to "represent" his constituents to the best of his ability and, as you wrote and I underlined, ALL of his constituents. Yes there may be a vocal minority but look at todays society and tell me vocal minorities do not carry some clout. They do not alway get their way but they are heard and do have influence in a representative government.

I infer from the last sentence of your post that actually their (the silent majority) views do matter (and the reps feel that they are the majority) and that is why this resolution was tabled, otherwise, why was it tabled?

I'm not a member of 44 and am ignorant about the complexities of putting one together, but it does seem like a "scope report card" should not be that big of a deal. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but would it really take that much work to put one out once a quarter? Nobody is trying to change policy that I can see, just trying to stay better informed about what's happening that may effect (effect/affect...did I use the right one?) their careers.

Just a thought, but if a resolution is passed that the LEC reps feel is not backed by the majority, why don't they poll their constituents either by calling themselves or by using Wilson, to find out the true position of the majority? Thanks for the discussion!

Denny

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Per the Reps at the 44 mtg, they plan on putting a history of DAL's Scope in the Roar. It is due out in a few weeks.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Bar,

Then I read the rest of your post!! A good laugh!

Denny

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Denny -

The reason why C44 pilots can't have a scope report card is because Comair pilots would get Date of Hire on the Delta list.

My wife asked me why she could not buy $250 shoes that she'd never wear. I told her "no, because if that happened Comair pilots would get Date of Hire on the Delta list."

My neighbor's kid asked me why I only pay him $40 to mow my grass. I told him that is what the "silent majority" wants and Comair would get Date of Hire on the Delta seniority list.

The kid looked at me strangely, then walked away dejected and I still only pay $40 for grass mowing! Wow, this stuff really works!

Originally Posted by Fly4hire

Funny Stuff! With a crack legal team, a fairly matched merger of ~ equals, and an arbitrator, NWA pilots could not get DOH

I suggest everyone who is fed up with the legal arguments of why we can't do this or that ref Scope go read Section 40.I of the ALPA Admin manual as amended post Ford-Cooksey settlement.

There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING that would legally preclude the passing of Scope resolutions, even saying we wanted to take every RJ ever conceived back frtom CMR. All Ford-Cooksey and 40.I do is to provide a non-binding seat at the table and process for inclusion in the Scope negotiating process. It does NOT guarantee an outcome, nor does it trigger further litigation if there is an unresolvable disagreement between the major and feeder family over a change to Scope.

There is NO ongoing litigation reference Scope and Ford-Cooksey. The lawsuit is settled and dead and RJDC disbanded. Ford has written a letter to Prater reference our grievance settlement that granted the feed additional 76 seaters (which advantages them) because of his perception that the grievance settlement was a negotiation and should have required Scope Subcommittee participation.

A letter of protest, not a lawsuit, over a non-binding process of the ALPA admin manual!

So again, why can't we legally pass any resolution with Scope at the MEC level?

Better start looking for another Red-Herring.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar