Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-26-2009, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by satchip
You know, they. As in Them. As in "one of them". :-)
09-26-2009, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You raise a very provocative point Scoop.
Carl
Scoop
09-26-2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Yes, are you one of them?
09-26-2009, 06:36 PM
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Yes,this is true. But as you know it takes someone to take a necessary first step. I know this will be a difficult road, but in needs to be done. Wish you were in 44 and not 66
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-27-2009 at 04:20 AM.
09-26-2009, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Scoop
We have probably all posted some foolish things, I know that I have, but I think we are better served directing our anger toward management - they are the ones on the opposite side of the table in negotiations.
Scoop
Scoop
Doing anything on emotion rarely works, especially negotiating. Emotion makes car dealers a fortune. If we're still doing negotiating on this level at the worlds largest airline on emotion then shame on us.
I will direct my anger towards the union if I feel like they will not represent their pilots as they have been hired to do. If I had an agent representing me and he wants me to do something I don't think is wise in the long term or doesn't pass the smell test then guess who I am going after? My agent, because either he isn't doing is job or he isn't telling me the whole picture.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 09-27-2009 at 04:03 AM.
09-26-2009, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
And that scope resolution was passed by how many pilots? In Atlanta there are probably around 3800 pilots, how many voted for your scope resolution? Does it represent the majority of the pilots or just those that called each other and gave proxies and posted on webboards to show up and vote on their one favorite issue? If you have a resolution that is voted on by 1800 or 1900 pilots then you have a better idea of the will of the council..
I don't usually get involved in these discussions and I usually agree with a lot of what you say but it just seems to me if you take the attitude that you have with the above quote, every resolution that is passed at a 44 council meeting should be tabled unless there are 1800 or 1900 pilots in attendance to get a true 'feel' of the majority. When was the last time that many pilots attended a union meeting (other than contract time)?
Denny
09-27-2009, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I don't want to go into anything angry. I don't think management comes to the table angry at the pilots. If anything they probably come in snickering and rightfully so.
Doing anything on emotion rarely works, especially negotiating. Emotion makes car dealers a fortune. If we're still doing negotiating on this level at the worlds largest airline on emotion then shame on us.
I will direct my anger towards the union if I feel like they will not represent their pilots as they have been hired to do. If I had an agent representing me and he wants me to do something I don't think is wise in the long term or doesn't pass the smell test then guess who I am going after? My agent, because either he isn't doing is job or he isn't telling me the whole picture.
Doing anything on emotion rarely works, especially negotiating. Emotion makes car dealers a fortune. If we're still doing negotiating on this level at the worlds largest airline on emotion then shame on us.
I will direct my anger towards the union if I feel like they will not represent their pilots as they have been hired to do. If I had an agent representing me and he wants me to do something I don't think is wise in the long term or doesn't pass the smell test then guess who I am going after? My agent, because either he isn't doing is job or he isn't telling me the whole picture.
You have the right to question your reps and discuss with them you issues. If you feel they are not representing the issues correctly, tell em. Bottom up!
09-27-2009, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I don't want to go into anything angry. I don't think management comes to the table angry at the pilots. If anything they probably come in snickering and rightfully so.
Doing anything on emotion rarely works, especially negotiating. Emotion makes car dealers a fortune. If we're still doing negotiating on this level at the worlds largest airline on emotion then shame on us.
I will direct my anger towards the union if I feel like they will not represent their pilots as they have been hired to do. If I had an agent representing me and he wants me to do something I don't think is wise in the long term or doesn't pass the smell test then guess who I am going after? My agent, because either he isn't doing is job or he isn't telling me the whole picture.
Doing anything on emotion rarely works, especially negotiating. Emotion makes car dealers a fortune. If we're still doing negotiating on this level at the worlds largest airline on emotion then shame on us.
I will direct my anger towards the union if I feel like they will not represent their pilots as they have been hired to do. If I had an agent representing me and he wants me to do something I don't think is wise in the long term or doesn't pass the smell test then guess who I am going after? My agent, because either he isn't doing is job or he isn't telling me the whole picture.
By all means direct your anger toward whoever you want. The main point of my post was that when pilots post personal insults at other pilots on this forum they detract from their argument. There is nothing wrong with being angry, disappointed, or frustrated with our union - at times I have felt all of these emotions (sometimes simultaneously). I am not saying it is wrong to criticize DALPA, but why not try to criticize with a well thought out and critical argument vice name-calling?
I am not saying everyone has to agree, or even not to get angry, but as you pointed out above, an emotional approach will rarely win out over a logical well thought out approach (unless teenage daughters are involved, in which case logic is worthless).
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 09-27-2009 at 07:00 AM.
09-27-2009, 06:48 AM
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Why Airline Mergers Don't Work...
Why Airline Mergers Don't Work: Scale Is Not a Blessing 
Why Airline Mergers Don't Work: Scale Is Not a Blessing -- Seeking Alpha
On March 24, 2008 my first post on Why Airline Mergers Don’t Work opened with the following paragraph:
Ever wonder why over the last 30 years Southwest Airlines management (NYSE: LUV) spent only $0.03 on mergers and acquisitions for every $1.00 of shareholder value they created? By comparison Delta management (NYSE: DAL) spent $2.35 for every $1.00 of value they created. And Northwest (NYSE: NWA) spent $1.61 on M&A for every $1.00 of value they created. In Louisiana we have a name for this kind of strategy: Jumping over a dollar to get to a nickel.
In a nutshell, I found that airline mergers don’t work because the bigger an airline gets, the greater its exposure to low price carriers like Southwest. This exposure forces management to meet lower fares in more markets, which puts inescapable downward pressure on ticket prices, revenues and earnings. In air travel, scale is not a blessing, it’s a curse. Of course the two biggest M&A losers cited above went ahead with their merger and now have become what Delta advertising proudly proclaims is the world’s largest airline.
*** continued ***
Why Airline Mergers Don't Work: Scale Is Not a Blessing -- Seeking Alpha
On March 24, 2008 my first post on Why Airline Mergers Don’t Work opened with the following paragraph:
Ever wonder why over the last 30 years Southwest Airlines management (NYSE: LUV) spent only $0.03 on mergers and acquisitions for every $1.00 of shareholder value they created? By comparison Delta management (NYSE: DAL) spent $2.35 for every $1.00 of value they created. And Northwest (NYSE: NWA) spent $1.61 on M&A for every $1.00 of value they created. In Louisiana we have a name for this kind of strategy: Jumping over a dollar to get to a nickel.
In a nutshell, I found that airline mergers don’t work because the bigger an airline gets, the greater its exposure to low price carriers like Southwest. This exposure forces management to meet lower fares in more markets, which puts inescapable downward pressure on ticket prices, revenues and earnings. In air travel, scale is not a blessing, it’s a curse. Of course the two biggest M&A losers cited above went ahead with their merger and now have become what Delta advertising proudly proclaims is the world’s largest airline.
*** continued ***
09-27-2009, 06:58 AM
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I agree, there is a place for anger, but it is not at the table. We need a dialogue with each other to come to a consensus. Anger and finger waving at past actions, and individuals just dilutes our purpose, strength and direction.
It takes a lot of effort to take a deep breath, step back and come at the issues with a rational approach. After all it is our careers and families we are dealing with.
I say bravo to those that stay informed, and engaged. We need a lot more of this.
It takes a lot of effort to take a deep breath, step back and come at the issues with a rational approach. After all it is our careers and families we are dealing with.
I say bravo to those that stay informed, and engaged. We need a lot more of this.
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