and

That might be overstating it a bit. FAR 117.25 (e) and (f) say you must be given 10 hours rest and 8-hours uninterrupted sleep opportunity, and the pilot must determine if the 8-hours have not been provided.

There is additional guidance about the one-call "rule" in deltanet, and it does say the company is allowed ONE call. Not sure what the basis is for this, but it's not in the FAR text from the ALPA website.

I think we each determine must whether we ""got interrupted or not. The fact the calls went out doesn't mean they interrupted your rest. Your phone might have been off, silent, whatever.

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to play this one way or another, but I don't think Check and sailing are correct when they say we are violating FAR's for "receiving" multiple calls if they didn't interrupt your sleep. And certainly, the fact the company made the calls doesn't mean showing up is a violation.

Not everyone going out, some are coming home. If they didn't get interrupted, something which only they can determine, they're not automatically illegal, IMO.

Still, I agree that IT has just taken a pretty hard shot at tomorrow's schedule.

The reason I point this out is that it is important to note that the pilot determines whether the sleep opportunity has been interrupted or not. Getting just one phone call doesn't mean you haven't lost your uninterrupted sleep opportunity. The company doesn't get to determine that you slept like a baby, just because they only called once. Conversely, for the company making several doesn't seem to imply (in the FAR's) that you have for certain lost your sleep opportunity. It may violate some sort of memorandum between the company and the FAA, but you're not violating the FAR's if you didn't determine that your sleep opportunity was interrupted.

For a ruling, let's go to Alan Shore. Alan?

 

I did. Had to spend an hour or so on hold to get the first turn of my rotation tomorrow removed.

 

Sink-
Are you saying that a pilot can waive the 10 hour rule?
If you just certify that some company notification did not disturb your rest then you can go ahead and report?
I'm not sure that's correct. If that were true then why can't we stay with our contract and acknowledge reserve trips three hours prior to report?

 

No it's trotting along just fine. They just ran out of carrots....

 

I think it's pretty clear they can only call once without breaking the 10 hour rest.

The FAA has a “one phone call” policy that “generally” allows a certificate holder to initiate one phone call during a crewmember’s rest period. If the crewmember voluntarily chooses to answer the phone call, the FAA does not view the phone call as disruptive and breaking the rest period. However, a flightcrew member may have difficulty getting back to sleep after being woken up by a certificate holder’s phone call. In that situation, a flightcrew member may have his/her sleep opportunity interrupted. Thus, a certificate holder runs the risk of interrupting a flightcrew member’s sleep opportunity during the rest period by making a phone call.

 

I'm not claiming I know much about 117, but I just read 117.25 (e) and (f), which seems to be the pertinent text, and I'm just saying that we have a duty to not to fly if we (the pilot) determine that the 8-hour sleep opportunity was interrupted. We also have the right to 10 hours free of duty. If you determine that your sleep was interrupted, then I think you should call and get an additional 8 hours sleep opportunity.

No one but you knows whether your opportunity was interrupted, and it's no based on the number of calls. Construction at the hotel might interrupt it, and you might sleep through a phone call, or turn it off and miss the subsequent interruptions. The reason I'm pointing this out, is that you shouldn't link the number of calls with an automatic interruption. In some cases, one is too many. I don't want people to think that the company is allowed to wake them up just once, but two calls is illegal. The regulations don't state that.

I don't know where the one-call "rule" comes from. It's on the 117 FAQ's on deltanet, but so is the nonsense about reserves having to acknowledge earlier than the contract.

 

10 phone calls from SKDS. 5 on the cell, 5 on the house phone. However, I am off tomorrow. If I were scheduled for a less than legal rest, I don't see how I could defend the position of "Sure, I got my 8 hours of un-interrupted FAR required rest". It'll be interesting to see how many guys abide by the FARs, and how many go out on a limb to an indefensible position for the good of the company.

 

Where is that in 117?

What you're discussing is whether the company is violating FAA policy, and you seem to be equating that with pilots violating FAR's. Pilots have a duty not to fly if they're not in compliance with 117.25. If they determine their sleep was interrupted, they need to act accordingly.

If a pilot doesn't determine that they lost the required sleep opportunity, they're not illegal. Maybe it's because they didn't hear the phone, didn't have it on, whatever.

Bottom line: the calls going out do not equate a pilot violating FAR's. They might mean the company has some splainin' to do, and in many cases, multiple calls = interruption from a pilot perspective. In some cases, however, even one call is too many.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to help the company out. This is unusual, because of the multiple calls. In most cases, the company abides by the one call policy, but still interrupts you. In that case, you have the right, actually the obligation, not to fly.

For most human beings actually getting the calls, and getting awoken each time, I agree with you: I don't see how you can possibly report fit for duty.

If there is a guy out there that turns his phone off, or doesn't lose sleep over a phone ringing because his girlfriend calls all the time, or whatever, and doesn't determine that his sleep is interrupted... he's not in violation.

 

Well, I have to go to bed, and get some uninterrupted sleep. Good night.