Originally Posted by Herkflyr

Well, I am reminded of an outstanding ALPA article called "The Do's and Dont's of Negotiating." Every pilot should read it, and we would all be less inclined to knee-jerk refer to our MEC and negotiators as "sellouts" "wimps" etc every time we didn't get everything we ever wanted and then some.

One of the "Dont's" was "Don't set unrealistic goals. Otherwise you will inevitably be disappointed." So, pre-C2K we had to negotiate pay rates for the 777. We opened with $346/hr. We ended up "settling" for $265/hr (slightly more than it pays today, 14 years later!). We also got a 6% pay raise for everyone on the property and immediate elimination of the B-scale.

It was a great agreement, and set a lot of groundwork for C2K. But the "just say no" crowd would not have a minute of it. They were so focused on our opener that they STILL thought of us as "sellouts" "wimps" and the like. It was feel-good chest-thumping that only makes sense written on the bathroom stalls, but somehow that mindset has been accepted as "keeping it real" "protecting the profession" and the like. It is not.

So, what would I like to see? I would like to see a min pay per day of 5.30-6 hours. I would CERTAINLY like to see vacation and CQ days pay much more (and that IS "realistic"). But like I told someone else, we all say "higher min day pay" and act like we will get it and all our trips will look identical or better than they currently do, and some min-pay-per-day fairy will magically sprinkle some more hours on to the trips we currently fly, and everything else remains as is. Probably not. My guess is if we went to 6+ hours a day min pay, you would see most domestic trips look like the NYC trips--completely non-commutable on both ends, and then you can imagine the outcry when that happened!

Another "Do" was "DO realize that negotiating is hard work, and preparation is key" (or something similar). But how could that be? If you believe a lot of message boards, negotiating should be the easiest thing in the world. You have no need to cost anything out, examine the company's position, operations, numbers, competition, business plan, etc, etc. You just walk in, slap down your opener, then head to the nearest pub to down a few until the company calls and says "sounds good, where can we sign?"

Hey, we need more--lots more. I am just on board with our current MEC approach, were we get lots and lots of modest improvements on a fairly continuous basis. It may not make headlines, but it HAS made our lives better--pay rates are getting there, the DPSP is up to 15% contributions, vacation slide, bidding for CQ, pos space deviate from DH on either end of a trip (I know you like that feature) etc etc. None of those things just magically appeared. They were the result of hardworking committees who kept things low-key and "realistic." But they have been real improvement.

Originally Posted by tsquare

This is interesting.....

Originally Posted by Timbo

Herk, I agree with some of that, but do you think that if we had opened with a 777 pay rate of $265, we would have settled at $265, or some lesser amount. That is my point, with the 9 hour min day.

Also, the Vacation Slide, QC bidding and the PS Seat to/from a DH trip cost the company zero, and we should have had all of that many years ago. Richard is really good at giving us zero cost items in exchange for things he wants....that do cost us, jobs mostly.

How's the Joint Venture Compliance coming along? And SD can issue a memo that violates our contract, no problem?

So who exactly decides what is "Realistic"? Richard? Or Dalpa? Or the NMB?

Originally Posted by georgetg

As expected, our Transatlantic JV compliance came in below the target of 50% and below the lower band of 48.5% as required in the PWA.

We are out of compliance and in the "cure" period.

The cure period ends March 30, 2015.

To date Delta hasn't loaded any additional flights that would indicate it will meet the PWA requirements for compliance by March 30, 2015.

There will be a Power Point presentation on this soon.

Cheers
George

Originally Posted by gzsg

Sometimes Tsquare I just don't know how to read you. It's like your a little boy and I'm telling you there is no Santa Clause. You get all mad and red in the face and run to your room covering your ears.

I emailed our Delta pilot BOD member Ken Rogers asking how many shares Mr. Anderson had at the time. His response it below.

Now that you have the facts, do you now favor DALPA taking the position to snap up our pay today and reduce the $2 billion dollar stock buy back?



"Mr. Anderson has 3,706,238 shares and options of Delta stock as of the end of April 2013. If he makes any change to that number would it be described subsequent in SEC filings. A link to those filings is available on Delta.com on the Investor Relations site under "SEC filings".
Also the cash components for the CEO and other management personnel can be found beginning on page 23 of the latest proxy statement - which can also be downloaded from the same site."

Ken Rogers

Remember these numbers are over a year old.

Tsquare I think you owe me an apology. We do disagree on how to restore our concessions, but we all agree it is time to make it happen.

Originally Posted by orvil

Respectfully, why are we discussing how to fix this? It's not our job. That's why there are managers. They manage assets or acquire additional assets (sims, classrooms, instructors). Let them manage. that's what they get well paid to do.

Originally Posted by georgetg

As expected, our Transatlantic JV compliance came in below the target of 50% and below the lower band of 48.5% as required in the PWA.

We are out of compliance and in the "cure" period.

The cure period ends March 30, 2015.

To date Delta hasn't loaded any additional flights that would indicate it will meet the PWA requirements for compliance by March 30, 2015.

There will be a Power Point presentation on this soon.

Cheers
George