hoserpilot

Doesn't matter what side of the argument your on. It's a contract violation. Now what are we as a pilot group going to do about it?

georgetg

Sailing, really?

lets look at the chart again with AFKLM/AZ broken out from the Total JV balance:

• Delta was planned to grow 3-4%
• Total JV was planned to grow 7-8%
• That means AFKLM/AZ was planned to grow 10-12% (@50% of JV)

Winner: AFKLM with triple the planned growth.

Then the plan is revised in response to the crisis in Europe:

• Delta planned cuts 10-12%
• Total JV planned cuts 7-9%
• AFKLM/AZ planned cuts ~5% (@50% of JV)

Who came out on top again?
On winter only huh?
10-12% cuts for Delta vs 5% cuts for AFKLM/AZ is "virtually equal?"
what kind of math are you doing?

Let's see what the data says:

• What is the trend are the lines converging to reach a middle or are divergent?
• What is happening with the seasonal cutbacks over time?
• Do you ever see the DAL line (red) above the 50% point?

Facts.

Cheers
George

sailingfun

It's not a contract violation until 1 Mar 2015. I told my reps what I expect and they were in agreement. A grievance will be filed and I expect the pilot group to be compensated for the loss of flying.

sailingfun

George, that diagram includes the addition of Alitalia on the AF/KLM side. If you published the same chart without Alitalia it would show the pull down was proportional. That is the exact point I was making.

tsquare

What seems to be making this even worse than what your charts (which are pretty damning btw) say is that if Delta (per Sailingfun's comment has the lion's share of the EASKs in the JV), then the net result to the Delta pilots is even more drastic than what these charts depict. Yeah, methinks sailing is running out of navigable waters here and is about to run aground.

georgetg

Nope also a what do you call it, myth.

Here is the percentage without Alitalia:



Fact, not hearsay.


BTW the standard for this chart would be a 52% target EASK share for Delta pilots as was in 1.P.4 pre LOA16

Where do we stand in regards to the 52% pre-Alitalia share of flying and what is the trend?

Cheers
George

sailingfun

Again I posted where you can find the data posted in the metric the agreement was written with as well as Block hours. I also spoke to the union guy who monitors it. It's also worth mentioning that there has been a sharp trend up word in our favor starting last summer. That might indicate the company wants to reduce their obligation. The amount of flying needed to be in compliance as I posted is about 2.5 flights a day depending on the aircraft. They owe us for the loss of jobs attached to those flights. They could a bucking posted be in compliance buy adding the following over the next 12 months to meet the 36 month average.

Check Essential

I look at the numbers and I listen to the briefings. We were told on numerous occasions that Air France was not pulling down their capacity proportionally to the economic slowdown in europe and that Delta was absorbing most of the necessary capacity cutbacks. The French had "political considerations" because they were already reducing jobs at the airline and they were not able to cut any further, etc. etc. etc.
You prefer to emphasize this period or that period or this trend or that trend but the bottom line is crystal clear. The numbers indisputably show that the JV flying is out of compliance with our contract. You want to excuse that non-compliance and I do not.
Regarding Narita - I would agree that the Japanese government was/is the proximate cause of our problems over there. But I DO NOT agree with "all the pilots you know" who think what we signed was a great deal. We surrendered our Narita language in exchange for a bucket of warm spit. We got a promise from management that they would only cut the Pacific flying to 85% of current levels. Gee thanks. They can whack another 15%. Why would we agree to that? We got another useless production balance in return that starts from a lower base line. We ratified more job losses.
Now you say that management has to make us whole for the flying they failed to add. Are you kidding me? DALPA will never enforce that. They won't even file a grievance on our reserve rules. Look at history. We always re-write our scope clause to allow for what management has done.

My more immediate concern - the MEC is about to adopt the Dickson memo as our new reserve rules and justify it with some shiny trinket to distract us. Maybe some version of "door pay" or something else totally unrelated and equally incomprehensible.
The long call reserves are about to get tossed under the bus.

/rant

tsquare

Why agree to that? Because before the agreement, there was no limit to what they could cut elsewhere. It's called insurance. We were trading a very small amount of flying for protection of much more flying. Would you rather they cut all the westbound Hawaii flying to keep that little bit of NRT flying? NRT is gonna die someday. The 787 was designed to deliver the coup de grace, and fortunately that thing isn't on the property, or you'd reallllly hear some squawking.

tsquare

I suppose it is true that Europe is recovering faster than originally forecast. However, as a big proponent of TVM, that is money we lost that we will not get back. Any won grievance will be like getting a tax refund. The 3 year timeline was foolish.

Oh, and george posted Bastian's charts. I'll use those. A percentage pulldown, with or without Alitalia's participation is still a bigger DAL pilots contribution. If you want to prove your point, show me a jobs chart. How many pilot positions have AF/KLM reduced over this time? All this EASK stuff is nothing but smoke, mirrors, and spin.