So it was a "positive concession?"

In any case...first time I've heard the words "PBS" and "positive" without irony or sarcasm in the same sentence.

 

Toulouse (France) (AFP) - Emirates airline delivered a huge blow to European aerospace group Airbus on Wednesday, cancelling an order for 70 new-generation A350 airliners -- a deal that analysts estimate to be worth about a tenth of the aircraft maker's 2014 orders.

The long-distance aircraft, due to go into service this year, is the Airbus flagship project of the moment to compete with the Boeing 787 which has been flying since 2011.

The size of the cancellation is the biggest-ever by a prestigious customer for a civil airliner.

Airbus said that the cancellation followed an order placed by Emirates at the Dubai air show in November for an extra 50 A380 superjumbo planes.

The cancellation decision was made following "on-going discussions with the airline in light of their fleet requirement review", Airbus said.

The deal was said to be worth $16.5 billion (12 billion euros) when it was announced in 2007, but Airbus said that customers were already interested in taking up the cancelled aircraft.
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The interior of the economy class of the new Airbus …
The interior of the economy class of the new Airbus A350 XWB is pictured during a presentation in Ha …

The sudden announcement by Emirates, a powerful player in the expanding Gulf airline industry, sent Airbus Group shares down 5.5 percent to 11.22 euros.

And in London, aero-engine maker Rolls-Royce warned that the decision would cut the value of its order book by 2.6 billion pounds (3.2 billion euros, $4.3 billion).

The cancellation "amounts to eleven percent of orders which Airbus expects to take in 2014," said analyst Christophe Menard at brokers KeplerChevreux.

The airliner business accounts for the main part of activities by Airbus Group, formerly EADS, and the head of its sales division John Leahy said: "It's not good news commercially but it has no impact financially."

Opening an innovation show by Airbus at its headquarters in Toulouse, Leahy, who has played a major role in the rise of Airbus over the years, said that he had time to find other customers for the cancelled planes which were due to be delivered from 2019.
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Emirates Airlines planes stand on the tarmac of Dubai …
Emirates Airlines planes stand on the tarmac of Dubai airport May 1, 2003 (AFP Photo/Nasser Younes)

He had only just heard of the cancellation, he said, so the decision was not a direct counter-balance to the order placed in Dubai.

- Customers 'queue' up -

"I am amazed that we already have enquiries, there is already a queue of people," he said.

In Dubai, Emirates also ordered 150 Boeing very-long-haul 777-8 and 777-9 airliners which are due to enter service from 2020. It also took an option on another 50 of this version.

Emirates was not available for comment on Wednesday.
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Airbus said that the cancellation followed an order …
Emirates airline delivered a huge blow to European aerospace group Airbus, cancelling an order for 7 …

Airlines had been making massive aircraft orders in anticipation of a pick-up in air traffic as advanced economies recover from a slump and with emerging economies expected to deliver a boost in demand.

The future Boeing 777 series and the Airbus A350 are competitors in what is known as the medium, twin-engined segment, the heart of the market, said analyst Scott Hamilton at Boeing's home base in Seattle in Washington State.

The decision affects nearly 10 percent of the orders for the new Airbus long-haul aircraft which is going through the processes for obtain airworthiness certification.

Airbus added that it was still very confident in the A350 programme and said that it had orders from 28 airlines for 742 aircraft six months ahead of the plane entering service.

A notable feature of the plane is that the fuselage is made mainly of composite materials.

"The programme of test flights for the A350 is progressing well and is on schedule for certification (by the Aviation Authorities) in the coming months," said Airbus.

Emirates had ordered 50 A350-900 and 20 stretched A350-1000 aircraft in 2007, marking the second-biggest order by volume for the A350 plane after 80 ordered by Qatar Airways.

Singapore Airlines has also ordered 70 A350 planes.

Scott Hamilton said that the cancellation could leave a gap in the Emirates fleet which would give Boeing an opportunity to sell its 777-300R model which is available for delivery from 2017.

Emirates could decide to increase substantially its fleet of these Boeing planes rather than take up a new model.

Menard said that in all probability, Emirates had decided to streamline its fleet and focus on the Airbus A380 and the Boeing 777 series

 

PBS is a HUGE gain in productivity.

Can't speak for DAL, but from talking with friends at other airlines who were involved in looking at the PBS, the numbers are pretty big.

Overall, PBS provides a %15 increase in productivity (IE same work with less pilots). Just the month-month transition alone is worth 7-8 percent. The rest comes from eliminating the conflict from vacations, training, mil leave and so on.

%15 increase in productivity is HUGE. That is a FAT number to the bean counters at any airline which is why they trip over themselves to push it.

What that means in real terms is if you are at the bottom %15 of your category, you face the real possibility of displacement. If you were looking to upgrade or move to a higher paying piece of equipment, you are SOL.

If you are going to engage a company for PBS, this has to be taken into account. Sure, PBS offers some pretty decent bid satisfaction by the nature of the way the system works, but the loss of "touching trips", if a contract contains it, can really wreck "good deals".

So you have to decide what kind of pay rate makes up for the loss of potential. That number can get pretty fat.

This issue is related to, although not the same, as pay banding. Depending on the size of the bands, you REALLY need to make the pay rate worth it, which would have to include a raise for the guys at the top of the band.

Nu

 

So what is your category and who is doing the complaining? I sure haven't heard any of it. We have had PBS for nearly nine years. I have heard less than five guys complain about it that entire time. For most it has been a tremendous positive, for many reasons I can explain in detail if you are too dense to comprehend them.

In fact if it were announced that we were getting rid of PBS (at least the excellent system we have at DAL--I can't speak for other pilot groups elsewhere) you would have mass protests.

So what sucks about our PBS system? Truthfully. I'm not talking about the "general" issue of increased productivity for the company. That argument was settled at DAL, for good or ill, nine years ago. What, other than that general complaint, sucks about our PBS system? Almost nothing, that's what.

 

From talking with reps who were involved with PBS at Delta, it wasn't anywhere near 15% for us -- more like 5%. Giving up the cap and going to ALV with no real limit was the big productivity player for us.

 

Other than being slow, hard to manipulate and no Navtech for Apple, its great.

 

cpberry,

I don't call every month - perhaps 3 or 4 times a year when I have a specific question unique to that months situation.

When I said "it happens every month" I was referring to the PBS Bid assist wait times which is far too long. This is what I have experienced every time I call and what I hear from my fellow Pilots.

Besides hearing all the bidding "screw-up" stories perhaps more Pilots should be calling.

For the record - I am a big PBS fan.

Scoop

 

That's a cop out. It is all related, and it all adds up. PBS was a big productivity concession, and I truly believe that we never got fully compensated for it. I have said this before and I will say it again. I want to see numbers comparing pre-PBS pilot requirements and payroll beside those even before the merger. Reserve requirements were able to be tightened... many more things other than the few you mentioned.. We will never see those comparisons because ALPA knows it would be eye watering.

I am not saying that I want to go back to LOT bidding, but to say it was a minor concession is disingenuous. The really fortunate thing was that we had DEX as a test bed and we really learned what an abortion PBS can be if not properly structured.

 

Nu,

PBS in itself does not increase productivity. PBS is basically a computer program that turns our contract and work rules into a schedule.

I remember "trips touching" and Line of Time bidding - but that was specific to those contracts.

I will agree that PBS enables efficiencies but it is mainly the contract that drives efficiencies. For example:

You could have Line of Time bidding that would not award a line if it conflicted with your vacation. You could also have a PBS that for the most part puts vacation on after a line is awarded - thus dropping "trips touching." A lot of this is contract driven and to some extent enabled by PBS.

PBS is just a tool not inherently good or bad. It does make it easier for the company to increase productivity but in my opinion that is mostly a function of our contract and less a function of PBS.

Scoop

 

Nor this: Hillary Clinton's Health Issues