Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2014, 08:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by gzsg
Alpha
How many initial training cycles do you estimate for each retirement?
If one 777A retires is there one A330A will to take their place?
And that A330A vacancy any ER captain will to take the slot?
And that ER captain slot any MD88A willing to move up? And and and...
Again I estimate 8 to 10 initial training events for each retirement. We will have several years where more than 800 pilots will retire. There is no way to minimize the impact of pay banding. IMO
How many initial training cycles do you estimate for each retirement?
If one 777A retires is there one A330A will to take their place?
And that A330A vacancy any ER captain will to take the slot?
And that ER captain slot any MD88A willing to move up? And and and...
Again I estimate 8 to 10 initial training events for each retirement. We will have several years where more than 800 pilots will retire. There is no way to minimize the impact of pay banding. IMO
I have done quite a bit of contract costing and I was just trying to show the analytical method about how you would come up with job savings from some pay banding proposal. Figure out the current training load and then try to estimate how much that load would be reduced and then do the math.
Other than that I will let you guys fight it out. Apparently in a "bottom up" organization every pilot is supposed to have a say unless you don't toe the "bottom up" line. Some pigs are just more equal than others.
06-30-2014, 08:12 PM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by n9810f
Bombardier announced order for 24 CR9's today from unidentified.
06-30-2014, 08:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by gzsg
Alpha
How many initial training cycles do you estimate for each retirement?
If one 777A retires is there one A330A will to take their place?
And that A330A vacancy any ER captain will to take the slot?
And that ER captain slot any MD88A willing to move up? And and and...
Again I estimate 8 to 10 initial training events for each retirement. We will have several years where more than 800 pilots will retire. There is no way to minimize the impact of pay banding. IMO
How many initial training cycles do you estimate for each retirement?
If one 777A retires is there one A330A will to take their place?
And that A330A vacancy any ER captain will to take the slot?
And that ER captain slot any MD88A willing to move up? And and and...
Again I estimate 8 to 10 initial training events for each retirement. We will have several years where more than 800 pilots will retire. There is no way to minimize the impact of pay banding. IMO
I agree with alfa (btw, welcome back!) that we need hard data, not wild a** speculation about this issue.
06-30-2014, 08:55 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
I am not sure there is any other way to say this. I don't know any of the data about this other than a personal guess. ...
I have done quite a bit of contract costing and I was just trying to show the analytical method about how you would come up with job savings from some pay banding proposal. Figure out the current training load and then try to estimate how much that load would be reduced and then do the math.
Other than that I will let you guys fight it out. Apparently in a "bottom up" organization every pilot is supposed to have a say unless you don't toe the "bottom up" line. Some pigs are just more equal than others.
I have done quite a bit of contract costing and I was just trying to show the analytical method about how you would come up with job savings from some pay banding proposal. Figure out the current training load and then try to estimate how much that load would be reduced and then do the math.
Other than that I will let you guys fight it out. Apparently in a "bottom up" organization every pilot is supposed to have a say unless you don't toe the "bottom up" line. Some pigs are just more equal than others.
It was good that you weighed in on this.
Regardless of the perceived equality of the swine, even poorly timed democratic debates educate folks.*
The universal consensus is that there should be more information pushed to the line pilot about these sorts of proposals. If we run with your Animal Farm metaphor, the task could reasonably fall within squealer's scope of responsibility. Besides, responding to the DPA's Crew Van nonsense is like Napoleon wresting with the Hens.
-----
* guess the person who broke the story was hoping for a SDP type uprising. (me thinks his timing was off by nearly a half year, but whatever)
06-30-2014, 08:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Originally Posted by Hillbilly
For DPMP, if you retire before 60, you pay 100% of the premiums. After 60, you pay 51% of the premiums. No change at 65. I don't think you can elect any coverage after you reach Medicare eligibility age.
06-30-2014, 09:10 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Alpha,
It was good that you weighed in on this.
Regardless of the perceived equality of the swine, even poorly timed democratic debates educate folks.*
The universal consensus is that there should be more information pushed to the line pilot about these sorts of proposals. If we run with your Animal Farm metaphor, the task could reasonably fall within squealer's scope of responsibility. Besides, responding to the DPA's Crew Van nonsense is like Napoleon wresting with the Hens.
-----
* guess the person who broke the story was hoping for a SDP type uprising. (me thinks his timing was off by nearly a half year, but whatever)
It was good that you weighed in on this.
Regardless of the perceived equality of the swine, even poorly timed democratic debates educate folks.*
The universal consensus is that there should be more information pushed to the line pilot about these sorts of proposals. If we run with your Animal Farm metaphor, the task could reasonably fall within squealer's scope of responsibility. Besides, responding to the DPA's Crew Van nonsense is like Napoleon wresting with the Hens.
-----
* guess the person who broke the story was hoping for a SDP type uprising. (me thinks his timing was off by nearly a half year, but whatever)
07-01-2014, 02:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
There is so much about this discussion not to like:
1) Pay banding.
2) The allegation that some guys would be reaching a deal on pay banding wayyyyy ahead of the MEC, and especially ahead of the survey, therefore ahead of the pilot group, thereby corrupting the process.
3) Riding that unproven allegation, trying to give a partial, or maybe false, impression, of what might be happening, to manipulate opinion on a specific topic.
1) Pay banding.
2) The allegation that some guys would be reaching a deal on pay banding wayyyyy ahead of the MEC, and especially ahead of the survey, therefore ahead of the pilot group, thereby corrupting the process.
3) Riding that unproven allegation, trying to give a partial, or maybe false, impression, of what might be happening, to manipulate opinion on a specific topic.
07-01-2014, 02:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Anyone else think it's really weird that something hypothetical like pay banding is getting put on as a rumor/leak on APC, but something that actually was happening over several months (SDP's) wasn't leaked on here?
It sure would have been nice to know that was a discussion so we could have nipped it in the bud without paying for the privilege. Now we're getting helpful info on crap that a "shadow" MEC is purportedly going to do several months ahead of openers?
W.T.F?
It sure would have been nice to know that was a discussion so we could have nipped it in the bud without paying for the privilege. Now we're getting helpful info on crap that a "shadow" MEC is purportedly going to do several months ahead of openers?
W.T.F?
07-01-2014, 03:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Anyone else think it's really weird that something hypothetical like pay banding is getting put on as a rumor/leak on APC, but something that actually was happening over several months (SDP's) wasn't leaked on here?
It sure would have been nice to know that was a discussion so we could have nipped it in the bud without paying for the privilege. Now we're getting helpful info on crap that a "shadow" MEC is purportedly going to do several months ahead of openers?
W.T.F?
It sure would have been nice to know that was a discussion so we could have nipped it in the bud without paying for the privilege. Now we're getting helpful info on crap that a "shadow" MEC is purportedly going to do several months ahead of openers?
W.T.F?
If it was a real "thing", the leak would have happened on the other forum
Originally Posted by Sink r8
There is so much about this discussion not to like:
1) Pay banding.
2) The allegation that some guys would be reaching a deal on pay banding wayyyyy ahead of the MEC, and especially ahead of the survey, therefore ahead of the pilot group, thereby corrupting the process.
3) Riding that unproven allegation, trying to give a partial, or maybe false, impression, of what might be happening, to manipulate opinion on a specific topic.
1) Pay banding.
2) The allegation that some guys would be reaching a deal on pay banding wayyyyy ahead of the MEC, and especially ahead of the survey, therefore ahead of the pilot group, thereby corrupting the process.
3) Riding that unproven allegation, trying to give a partial, or maybe false, impression, of what might be happening, to manipulate opinion on a specific topic.
2) Ask your rep, last I checked the MEC doesn't have a position on any further pay banding.
3) There's probably only about 50-100 DAL pilots on here, hardly enough to manipulate an opinion, IMO.
07-01-2014, 03:16 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Both United and American have pay banding. Southwest of course only has one pay rate. Right now, our pay system is probably more of an outlier in the industry rather than the norm.
For sure, if you want to get the most value out of pay banding, you would do it sooner rather than later.
For sure, if you want to get the most value out of pay banding, you would do it sooner rather than later.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 07-01-2014 at 03:28 AM.
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