Relax....not trying to spin anything. And I think you should re-read the post yet again. I'm strictly commenting on your previous statement that Wall Street has all the money that we want to get and if they don't like us we won't get it.

I strongly disagree with that and simply asked you to explain how stock price affects what we can gain at the negotiating table. Not "how do earnings affect stock price" or anything else.

In a way I see your point about investor perceptions indirectly making it possible for DAL to obtain financing to buy more airplanes which benefits pilots, but if it really works that way then just think how many airplanes they could buy for me if we all agreed to work for free.

We are a line-item cost to this airline, just like peanuts and Coke, and a cost item that RA would be happy to cut up to and including 100% IF he could do so while still increasing the earnings and stock price of DAL. I believe that code shares are an example of that concept. I think that management of this corporation is thrilled that we, as a group, have deluded ourselves into thinking that we are somehow equal partners with them in the enrichment of DAL.

I am NOT an advocate of the OTHER extreme either, where we think we can pound fists and demand things at the table because we "deserve" it or because it's only "fair". But there is middle ground between those extremes, where the pilot group works with and cooperates with the goals of management ONLY insomuch as it yields tangible gains at the negotiating table. Return on investment if you will. Absent those gains, and our track record is lacking there, I don't understand the fascination with doing pilot things to increase the profits of DAL beyond what is just necessary to keep the doors open. Either reward those efforts at the table or I'm more inclined to just be a FU pay me kind of guy. And DAL stock price has no effect on that either.

This is a true statement. It's a sad state of affairs how business operates these days.

I don't believe that there is a "correct" way to measure Pilot productivity. There are many different ways - some better than others, but many are valid.

Management wants us to believe that "Block hours flown" is the Holy Grail of measuring Pilot productivity. Why? Because it is advantageous to them to use this as the defining metric.

George brought up ASM's produced. I mentioned revenue produced per Pilot - which by the way has DAL Pilots more productive than Southwest Pilots.

DALPA would be foolish to allow management to go unchallenged in defining the Metrics that define our productivity.

The company brags about their astute managerial skill in putting "the right equipment on the right route to maximize revenue," and they do a good job at this. However the complex and varied fleet that allows them to maximize revenue also requires more Pilot training and more reserves. In other words, lowers our ability to maximize block hours flown.

We would be fools to allow them to brag about their ability to maximize revenue on one hand ( and reward themselves greatly for it) and then turn around and on the other hand belittle our productivity. The very producitivity that gives them the ability to maximize revenues.

Who cares about block hours? Last time I checked profit is basically determined by revenue minus costs. I don't see block hours in this equation.

Bottom Line - Block hours are definitely a factor in Pilot productivity but so is ASM's and revenue produced. If DALPA allows managemnt to successfully define the metric as block hours than we are relenting to working more in each successive contract.

If as some say, block hours are the historical norm for measuring Pilot Productivity than DALPA should start challenging this notion ASAP.


Scoop

Ah, the check airman in you comes out even here. Thanks boss. What can I say. Auto correct.

And that is the "check airman" coming out in me. It wasn't lost on me at all. Your figure worked well under one cent. Your .5% would net 4.2 cents per year. I get it you are happy with just a cost of living increase. At your point in your career, as you prepare to depart the pattern, that is understandable.

So about the screen name. Years ago, when I first was introduced to this web site, there was a plethora of folks on here actively trying to manage our expectations downward. Company talking points and union rhetoric were indistinguishable. I decided that the spades need to be identified and labeled.

Thus, the screen name. I am attempting to manage expectations that are being effectively steered in the the corporations balance back to where reality exists. I am just an infrequent visitor that puts in posts for consideration when warranted. It is because of folks like myself that are seeking a fair balance of information that the DALPA board was closed.

Stop and think about that for a minute.

But T, you failed to answer these questions. Feel free anytime to enlighten us here as this fair exchange of information and ideas is beneficial to all.

Ask yourself this T. Back to that reduced debt and restarting of the dividend payments that helped usher in acceptance back onto the S and P. What was some of the largest debt that Delta was able to reduce? Hint, the word starts with a P.

Ask yourself this next question. Is it expectable for you that Delta pay a dividend prior to compensating the Square family fairly for the sacrifices you made to see the company to the exit of bankruptcy?

There are many options that need to be evaluated and kept on the table. But shying away from hourly raises is not approaching this challenge smarter.

Well said.
If we keep bending over to increase Delta's profitability (and/or stock price) and not demanding that DALPA fights for a corresponding upside for ourselves...we're idiots.

It was sort of a compliment... kinda... I thought what you wrote was funny.

Believe it or not, I think we are on the same side of this argument. I am in no way advocating that we work for free, or that we haven't sacrificed, or that those sacrifices shouldn't be recognized. My contention is how to best get those sacrifices back. And in some respects, I am a FUPM kind of guy too. We already got scope back. Well, all at the bottom that is willing to fight for anyway... (standing by for incoming on that)

But in the court of public opinion, which would you say has a greater impact on Joe 6 pack: A 747 captain that makes $450/hour and makes $300k/year, or a 747 captain that makes $300/hour and makes $300k? or is there no difference? It is somewhat rhetorical, but it is an interesting question as to what you believe their perception is of us.

OK... I'll ask it. How long have you been on the property? Just in round numbers.

Good thesis so far. Please continue.

Got it. As did I. But I can't take credit.