Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-24-2014, 10:18 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Gearjerk
I think you could've left the "ballsy" adjective out of your description. 
There's nothing "ballsy" about committing career-suicide by "signing up" for an Illegal Job Action under the RLA.
Good day.
There's nothing "ballsy" about committing career-suicide by "signing up" for an Illegal Job Action under the RLA. Good day.
Their effort is doomed before it begins and I am in no way saying they should go forward, I'm saying they have a moral (if not legal) right to withdraw their services whenever they damned well please.
It would make a great debate in a Constitutional Law class. Wonder if anyone has ever challenged the RLA on the basis of the 13th Amendment.
07-24-2014, 10:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by TheManager
Recently, due to unscheduled events and the crappy trips built pushed to the max scheduled duty day, this came into play for myself for the first time.
This above would have been good to know going into it. I will say that the duty pilot is of no help. His job is to take your statement if you punch out. You will talk to him.
Crew tracking a different animal. Honestly can say that they will try and compel one to do what is "contractually required" and will really emphasize this. In my case, I had to manage the call like a deposition to get correct information concerning 117 requirements v. CBA requirements. Because of my lack of complete knowledge, I attempted to fill some holes in that knowledge during our conversation. The crew tracker tried to exploit that to present information that would have one believe that we are required to go to max + 2 automatically.
I believe that might qualify by definition as pilot pushing.
This above would have been good to know going into it. I will say that the duty pilot is of no help. His job is to take your statement if you punch out. You will talk to him.
Crew tracking a different animal. Honestly can say that they will try and compel one to do what is "contractually required" and will really emphasize this. In my case, I had to manage the call like a deposition to get correct information concerning 117 requirements v. CBA requirements. Because of my lack of complete knowledge, I attempted to fill some holes in that knowledge during our conversation. The crew tracker tried to exploit that to present information that would have one believe that we are required to go to max + 2 automatically.
I believe that might qualify by definition as pilot pushing.
07-24-2014, 10:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
In other news, JFK-TLV resumes tonight.
07-24-2014, 10:25 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by gloopy
Exactly. Even disregarding the RLA, FAR's and contract law, The Core Values/Rules of the Road clearly say "always keep your deals".
This isn't just a generic contractual line item. This is a huge issue of personal and corporate honor, trust and integrity. A deal was made and the intent was very clear to both sides. That three year deal wasn't honored, but there was a 1 year "cure period" in that deal. We are 1/3 of the way through that cure period, and still haven't been told what, if anything, has been done.
If there hasn't been significant progress so far, then its clear the entire 4 year deal is going to be knowingly and intentionally violated. Even if we are push overs and sell those job equivalents for some pieces of silver, where's the integrity in that for either side? More importantly, why does our leadership rabidly insist on using our pilot group (not to mention other work groups) only as a last resort bare minimum goal as required by contract, and even then goes below it?
This isn't just a generic contractual line item. This is a huge issue of personal and corporate honor, trust and integrity. A deal was made and the intent was very clear to both sides. That three year deal wasn't honored, but there was a 1 year "cure period" in that deal. We are 1/3 of the way through that cure period, and still haven't been told what, if anything, has been done.
If there hasn't been significant progress so far, then its clear the entire 4 year deal is going to be knowingly and intentionally violated. Even if we are push overs and sell those job equivalents for some pieces of silver, where's the integrity in that for either side? More importantly, why does our leadership rabidly insist on using our pilot group (not to mention other work groups) only as a last resort bare minimum goal as required by contract, and even then goes below it?
)In reality, we abide our contract, Company policies and procedures. We do so because of our integrity. We also do so because we really don't have much choice in the matter. The Company routinely violates trip assignment order and ALPA has a great track record of getting pilots paid for that noncompliance.
It has been my observation our pilots are much more honest than management has been. If anyone wants to even debate the issue the argument can be won with one word, bankruptcy.
07-24-2014, 10:29 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by duece12345
Sorry to be a dumb newhire, but my rotation says 3 different times. If it says 12.00/14.00/9.00, what am I contractually and legally required to do? The first day only has 2 times with an ACT/MAX label above the 2 times. I know this was on deltanet many moons ago, but I cant find anything.
12 FAR
14 FAR + extension
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 07-24-2014 at 11:03 AM.
07-24-2014, 10:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I support these guys. They are doing what needs to be done on the Express level to reach through the shell game and put leverage on those who control the market.
07-24-2014, 10:34 AM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I support these guys. They are doing what needs to be done on the Express level to reach through the shell game and put leverage on those who control the market.
Their effort is doomed before it begins and I am in no way saying they should go forward, I'm saying they have a moral (if not legal) right to withdraw their services whenever they damned well please.
It would make a great debate in a Constitutional Law class. Wonder if anyone has ever challenged the RLA on the basis of the 13th Amendment.
Their effort is doomed before it begins and I am in no way saying they should go forward, I'm saying they have a moral (if not legal) right to withdraw their services whenever they damned well please.
It would make a great debate in a Constitutional Law class. Wonder if anyone has ever challenged the RLA on the basis of the 13th Amendment.
07-24-2014, 10:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: "Prof" button manipulator
Posts: 1,685
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I support these guys.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I'm saying they have a moral (if not legal) right to withdraw their services whenever they damned well please.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
It would make a great debate in a Constitutional Law class. Wonder if anyone has ever challenged the RLA on the basis of the 13th Amendment.
07-24-2014, 10:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Not quite sure what this will do for the independent regionals. There is nothing to compel the mainlines to give more money, in fact it allows them to modify the ASA's to the negative. Regional pilots need to stop all payment of union dues, not engage in illegal work action.
The regionals could fire ALPA and have the best agents from sports and entertainment represent them and still nothing would change. They only exist to fight for the scraps of other's flying that others allow to be outsourced for the purpose of low bidding for. ALPA, RALPA, whatever, its not going to change. Only mainline pilots killing off the model with scope recapture is going to change it.
07-24-2014, 10:42 AM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by gloopy
Mainline pilot groups are the ones that need to stick a sword in the pig of regional outsourcing. We sell flying back to the company so they can sell it to the lowest bidder. The fight to fix it isn't going to come from there not being a lowest bidder. There always will be, overhyped but somewhat real pilot shortage notwithstanding.
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