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Old 07-24-2014 | 11:23 AM
  #163821  
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I don't understand mine craft speak.

Example: I'm going to the nether to spawn zombie pig men, but first I need obsidian and flint and steel.

My son is a geek. Or am I?
Old 07-24-2014 | 11:24 AM
  #163822  
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Originally Posted by gloopy
That's a bit of a straw man argument. Its only valid because the trappings of seniority and longevity. But were it not for those "golden handcuffs" in the first place, the issue wouldn't exist anyway. We'd all be free for all yearly contract pilots bouncing around trying to negotiate for not only pay but seat, base, work rules and everything else. It would be a disasterous experiment in good times and absolute industry catastrophy in bad times.

Even if regionals all went away tomorrow, it would still be contractually illegal for AA to hire a DL pilot at off contract pay, QOL and (essentially) seniority. And honestly, this career would be far worse off in a wild west scenario like that, even in the limited salad days we're in. After the next natural disaster/man made disaster/economic crash, and there will be those, do you really want to be on an at will contract that's coming to an end in a down cycle? No one is going to help facilitate that.
Airlines offer off contract compensation to pilots all the time. It's basically how the regionals are functioning these days. If the union would actually fight for us, these off contract side deals would actually be contractual raises for everyone.

This isn't a straw man argument. I've actually been airline management. Pre-bankruptcy, I expressed concern that cutting pilot pay up to 50% at NWA would cause a mass exodus of pilots resulting in the ultimate failure of the company. I was laughed at by upper management, who told me, for every guy that walks, two guys from the regionals will replace them, and thus, they could work the pay cuts. They were dead on balls accurate.
Old 07-24-2014 | 11:37 AM
  #163823  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by gloopy
Pretty sure no. The only way would be for you to list and somehow get activated for it as a pax while flying. Obviously a no-no.

Parents get S-2's don't they?
Unfortunately, no, they are S3B; behind active employees.

I think on some holidays your spouse (or partner) can S2 without it being taken against their limit.
Old 07-24-2014 | 11:39 AM
  #163824  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
Airlines offer off contract compensation to pilots all the time. It's basically how the regionals are functioning these days. If the union would actually fight for us, these off contract side deals would actually be contractual raises for everyone.
What?

... and to change the topic a bit ... there are still more express jobs being lost due to restructuring than are being created at the mainline level through at least year end 2017 ... so, you are still correct with regard to your assertion on replacing, you, me and the rest of us. That's why we need a union.
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:09 PM
  #163825  
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"If we can do this, we can do anything. We will send a powerful message if we stick together and STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT."

Sung to the tune of "Get up Stand up," by Bob Marley.
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:10 PM
  #163826  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
What?

... and to change the topic a bit ... there are still more express jobs being lost due to restructuring than are being created at the mainline level through at least year end 2017 ... so, you are still correct with regard to your assertion on replacing, you, me and the rest of us. That's why we need a union.
I would argue that a regional, like Endeavor is a major obstacle to scope recapture due to us being ALPA. If you get scope back in C2015, management could force an SLI between us, however, if we were not ALPA, that would not be a threat.
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:14 PM
  #163827  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
What is the basis for your advice?
Just curious.
Originally Posted by Gearjerk
Exactly. So why make an inevitable outcome worse by ruining one's career?

I think you could've left the "ballsy" adjective out of your description. There's nothing "ballsy" about committing career-suicide by "signing up" for an Illegal Job Action under the RLA.

Good day.
Methinks you missed my point... I think it's a stupid idea to withhold services to "send a message that we are underpaid" by claiming a sick call as the cover. IIRC, American (and maybe United also) pilots got in legal trouble over "protest" sick calls. Performing job actions outside of self help are a risky move given the way the courts have handed down anti-labor rulings under the RLA in the last 15-20 years. Bad idea all the way around. The only way is to resign or get hired where you will be compensated accordingly, not by abuse of sick leave language.

Between the big 3, they plan on hiring nearly 3500 pilots in the next 18 months....equivalent to the entire pilot groups at Republic and Compass just disappearing.

In 3-5 years it will equal or eclipse that to the tune of another 5000-7000 again and that's not even including JB, SWA, FDX, NK, UPS, or ALK.

The problem will fix itself soon because the pipline is empty due to the short-term MBA outsourcing paradigm. Main line pilots need to hold the line and continue to shrink the bottom end (and top end but different discussion) outsourcing as opportunities present themselves.

I have a mental picture that we will be seeing the return of the DC9/727 routes on 717/M88's doing ATL-SHV-MLU-SHV-ATL, ATL-BHM-JAN-BHM-ATL, etc. in the near future as the passenger demand for those cities is stable but the separate lift capability due to no pilots to fly the block hours on a separate leg.

But hey, if I could read the future I wouldn't be hanging out on the internet with you clowns!
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:16 PM
  #163828  
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
I would argue that a regional, like Endeavor is a major obstacle to scope recapture due to us being ALPA. If you get scope back in C2015, management could force an SLI between us, however, if we were not ALPA, that would not be a threat.
You are going to have to explain.

Without a pre-nup there would be no JPWA and no support from either ALPA, or management.

Hypothetically we could work together on a consensus proposal. Without ALPA to facilitate that really can't happen.

Yes, the Delta pilots could negotiate with Delta to kill outsourcing. But, frankly, your scope negotiations have been more effective than ours. Management is complying with yours; ours not so much.

Question: Since your contract and our contract is now with the same management, is it proper to use the term "our management" ? Certainly at the level these decisions are made, it is the same people calling the shots.
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:17 PM
  #163829  
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
"If we can do this, we can do anything. We will send a powerful message if we stick together and STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT."

Sung to the tune of "Get up Stand up," by Bob Marley.
I love me some Marley but for that song, I prefer this version, from Peter Tosh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOjg8mr36NQ
Old 07-24-2014 | 12:17 PM
  #163830  
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From: B757/767
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Originally Posted by duece12345
Sorry to be a dumb newhire, but my rotation says 3 different times. If it says 12.00/14.00/9.00, what am I contractually and legally required to do? The first day only has 2 times with an ACT/MAX label above the 2 times. I know this was on deltanet many moons ago, but I cant find anything.
12.00/14.00/9.00 should be your FDP limits.

12 hours of duty without the extension
14 hours of duty with the extension
9 hours max flight time.

You should also have your PWA duty limitations. You'll see these as two numbers. An example would be 7.42/12.46

If you would like a more detailed explanation log on to the DALPA website and access the library. Search for Scheduling Alert 14-03.
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