I think the problem is that not the whole pilot group is going to fly CDOs. Anyone flying an international airplane (777, 747, 330, 765, and the international 7ER) are very unlikely to ever fly a CDO.

So most likely the smaller the airplane the more likely it would fly a CDO, but not exclusively. In an irrops situation, any domestic reserve could get assigned a CDO, when a 10 hour overnight turns into 7. Make it a CDO with a late departure after the crew times out.

So - when you say "some pilots" sent a rather unambiguous opinion with regards to CDO's" I think it's most likely those pilots who would end up flying them sent feedback to their reps. I know I did.

The international guys probably don't care a whit about it - I'm not going to fly it. They might not even understand what a SDP or CDO is - they think a short overnight is 18 hours. (I'm not blasting the international guys, it's just a different operation than domestic). So the international guys and senior domestic probably didn't give any input, because the chance of them flying one is pretty slim.

Virtually all international guys were narrow body guys, the illegals, CDO, SDP's sucked tha ....don't want them forced down your throat either.

09-19-2014 | 03:49 PM

#168832

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 12,487

Likes: 0

From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Delta ended up with the best work rules, the highest pay rates, and the best bankruptcy returns.

That's just not the case. I'm posting this from the other thread so everyone can see what our DALPA contract comparison said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

As we're filling out our surveys, I thought it would be helpful to list where Delta pilots lead the industry. We all know our company leads the industry in financial performance and merger effectivity, but how often do we pilots lead? Here's the list from our contract comparison as to who leads in the specified areas:

1. Scope...............Southwest
2. Pay Rates:
-----B747/777.......Delta
-----B767-4/A330..United
-----B767-300.......UPS
-----B757.............UPS
-----B737-900.......Delta
-----A320.............United
-----MD88/717......Delta
-----Per Diem........American
3. Work Rules:
-----Monthly Guarantee...UPS
-----Reserve Guarantee...UPS
-----DPA/ADG................Southwest
4. Vacation:
-----Accrual..............United
-----Pay...................FedEx
5. Training Pay.........Alaska
6. Sick Leave............Hard to tell
7. Retirement Plans...FedEx
8. Medical................Southwest
9. Long Term Disab...UPS

Carl

09-19-2014 | 04:34 PM

#168833

Howgozit

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Apr 2010

Posts: 203

Likes: 0

From: B737NG-B

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

It means the last leg of the trip is an international leg which usually means you have to clear customs.

That makes sense, thanks.

09-19-2014 | 04:55 PM

#168834

iaflyer

seeing the country...

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 4,014

Likes: 41

From: 73N A

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49

Virtually all international guys were narrow body guys, the illegals, CDO, SDP's sucked tha ....don't want them forced down your throat either.

Maybe, but were they emailing and calling their reps telling them not to sign off on CDOs? Maybe, maybe not. Usually those most affected by something give lots of input.

Last edited by iaflyer; 09-19-2014 at 05:10 PM.

09-19-2014 | 05:29 PM

#168835

Reroute

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 593

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly4hire

I think I figured out why you are such a jovial guy - it's got to be hard to keep a straight face and believe some of the stuff you say

Not hard at all. Maybe it was too much for you to handle all at once.

Let's break it down into smaller segments

Correction, "some pilots" sent a rather unambiguous opinion with regards to CDO's. I think it's a stretch to say that "the pilot group" has.

True statement.

You might consider that there might be some self selection involved in the input the reps received during the TA

That's true. Unless there were over 3000 pilots writing the reps, it's self selection bias. You shouldn't ignore the input, but you can't claim that the "pilot group" has spoken either.

and that there might have been input before and after the TA that "some pilots" like and want CDO's.

I believe that to be a true statement. There are many pilots who like those types of rotations. Enough do that....

There was even a resolution from C20 asking for them.

The C20 reps brought a resolution to the MEC, which I'm sure was vetted at their local council meeting, asking for the reinstatement of illegals. They even argued for them at the time.

According to the DPA survey 39% of Delta pilots want CDO's.

Apparently a not insignificant number of pilots have expressed a desire for CDO's on the DPA survey. Of course that is also self selection.

So the question is; what's wrong with asking the group as a whole using a scientifically valid survey?

Care to answer?

09-19-2014 | 05:41 PM

#168836

80ktsClamp

Da Hudge

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 17,473

Likes: 0

From: Poodle Whisperer

Reroute: Are you saying that the current ALPA survey is more statistically/scientifically valid than the DPA survey?

09-19-2014 | 06:41 PM

#168837

iceman49

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jun 2008

Posts: 3,716

Likes: 0

We have a professional statistician that is a college professor on the seniority list...perhaps he could lend some info on the matter.

09-19-2014 | 07:44 PM

#168838

Mesabah

:-)

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 7,339

Likes: 1

Pan Am Experience | Pan Am Flies Again

Relive Pan Am apparently.

09-20-2014 | 02:54 AM

#168839

satchip

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 2,350

Likes: 0

From: Flying the SEC

Quote:

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

Zactly. With 5:15, those 30-hour layovers don't look so bad.

My guess is they will have 5 leg days on either end of the 30 hr layover to balance out the hard time/credit. I bet we see the 30 hrs followed by one leg home trips disappear.

09-20-2014 | 04:01 AM

#168840

hockeypilot44

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jul 2008

Posts: 5,583

Likes: 326

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchip

My guess is they will have 5 leg days on either end of the 30 hr layover to balance out the hard time/credit. I bet we see the 30 hrs followed by one leg home trips disappear.

My guess is we'll see trips with 3 13-14 hour duty days with a 30 hour layover thrown in there.