I understand.
I was just commenting on your hypothesis about why the Moak administration hasn't been trying to get any gains for the pilots.

There are some ideas that I have been told that truly concern me and some that make sense.

The idea of jacking up the contracts of all the DCI carriers one by one is that comes to mind. It is great in theory, but as the next mesa et al come around the house falls down and the process starts over again.

Also the last few years have not been the best times for this industry, but we have had many instances where our cooperation was not just needed but required. We got gains, just not on the scale that many were expecting for what was required. ( I know Slow we got a,b,c and I just do not get it! : it will save you the time it would take you to type it)

In the end the pilots voted for it, and we now have a group that is about to truly be one, it took less than 18 months. I give that to our MEC team. They have done one hell of a job blending these two groups. That takes sheer talent and a little luck. Now that it is done, we need to once again hope the company can convert potential energy in to kinetic.

We could philosophize all day about the merits of getting less to meld these groups, but the simple fact is that it is done. Many are frustrated. I will one again state, that 50% of this would be minimized if they would just communicate and allow input. (I know there is an internal struggle going on, and it will change, I just do not like the timing of when it will happen)

I note that you never responded to AlfaRomeo's post of why your opinions aren't supported by the facts. You reassert here that which is not true.

Why?

17% in direct pay hikes during the term of this contract. 3% more in your DC. 5.6% of the company...yet you say the Administration hasn't been trying...:rolleyes:

I'm wondering which ACL I'm getting to see tonight....

As to your statement in red above, not exactly...

Name a major airline merger where labor was consulted in advance. Name multiple airline mergers where labor wasn't consulted. Tell me the results again for the two groups....Oh, and how does Delta pilot labor compare with everyone else in the company?

Our collaboration brought rewards for both our corporation and each individual pilot. How'd it work out for AAA/LCC? AMR/TWA? NWA/REP?, DAL/WAL? Yup, there's a track record there....

How's the JV collaboration working compared to the UAUA/ Aer Lingus model? Has APA slowed down AMR's work with BA?

Where there are opportunities to get more this MEC and Administration has manufactured leverage to get what has never been gotten before. This management team is currently operating under the philosophy that collaborating with the pilots makes a bigger pie for everyone. None of the other legacies are taking that tact, so that collaboration isn't a requirement. Our financial results are just beginning to differentiate from our competitors, but it will be at least 2 more years before Delta has maximized the returns from all the groundwork that has been done. When we start generating profits there will be profit sharing. Where's YOUR leverage to get more NOW, ACL? Remember that the company still hasn't turned a profit. How does your compensation compare to the rest of the industry? Let's deal in the real world, please...:cool:

Thought I'd pass this list from another site along.

This is the compiled list of all cabin changes expected to come to the combined DL/NW mainline fleet:

A319: Wi-Fi, Reconfigured to F12/Y120*, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout*
A320: Wi-Fi, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout*
A330-200: Lie-Flat in J (most likely Thompson Vantage)*, already has AVOD throughout
A330-300: Lie-Flat in J (most likely Thompson Vantage)*, already has AVOD throughout
B737-700: Wi-Fi, already has AVOD w/ Live TV throughout
B737-800: Wi-Fi, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout on all aircraft* (currently available on a portion of the fleet)
B747-400: Lie-Flat in J (most likely Contour Solar)*, AVOD throughout*
B757-200 (DL Domestic): Wi-Fi, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout on all aircraft* (currently available on a portion of the fleet)
B757-200 (DL Int'l): Wi-Fi, already has AVOD throughout
B757-200 (NW 5500 Domestic): Future uncertain - were scheduled to leave fleet but now rumored to be staying
B757-200 (NW 5600 Domestic): Wi-Fi, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout*
B757-200 (NW 5600 Int'l): AVOD throughout*
B757-300: Wi-Fi, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout*
B767-300 (Domestic): Wi-Fi, already has AVOD throughout
B767-300ER: Thompson Vantage Lie-Flat in J, AVOD throughout*
B767-400ER: Thompson Vantage Lie-Flat in J (already on 7/21 aircraft), already has AVOD throughout
B777-200ER: Contour Solar Lie-Flat in J, already has AVOD throughout
B777-200LR: Already has Contour Solar Lie-Flat in J and AVOD throughout
DC-9-30: Leaving fleet, no modifications
DC-9-40: Leaving fleet, no modifications
DC-9-50: Wi-Fi
MD-88: Already has Wi-Fi, Reconfigured to 150 seats (F/Y mix unknown)*
MD-90: Already has Wi-Fi, Reconfigured to F16/Y144*, AVOD w/ Live TV throughout*

* Information derived from internal Delta communication only - not yet confirmed through a public source (press release or official blog entry). No official timetable known yet.

All pre-merger NW aircraft except those which are leaving the fleet are getting new lighting, carpet, and leather seat covers as an interim measure before any major hard product changes are conducted. All Wi-Fi installations should be complete by Summer 2010. Lie-flat business class seat installation will continue throughout 2010 but the scheduled completion date is unclear at this point.

You sure you're dealing in the real world? Which definition of the real world are you going by? How are you going to draw the lines to make them in the favor of your conclusion? Are you pleased with 17%? 17% doesn't even keep up with inflation for our BK payrates... much less actually get anything back. How about parking all those RJ's at Lee's command? He told RA that they will no longer be economical, so they parked them? Is that how it went down? You keep saying DALPA is the reason for the RJ's being parked It's like you're telling us we're doing a great job running in the special olympics... or we're winning the rat race. But what it all boils down to in the end... well, you know. :)

Great.

Let's see some real results from these next negotiations.

Ahh, here we go again...:(

You can start your reality check on the home page of APC. Look at the payrates and retirement section for airlines flying similar aircraft. Look at the payrates for each comparable airline. Look at the retirement section for each comparable airline. Then try and draw a reality based conclusion knowing that those Delta rates are increasing by 4% in 38 days, and the DC is going up by 1%. You can run that comparison through 2012 if you'd like. That's the real world.

You bet I want more, but in this economy I'm damn pleased with 17%, 3% more DC, and 5.6% of our company. If our company does really well I'll get profit sharing in the near term and my stock value will go up. We will be well positioned to get more with every opportunity that presents itself. If our company keeps losing money we won't.

Didn't you join Delta post-bankruptcy from PCL?:confused: Maybe you can enlighten me on how much better we should be doing in the real world, and how you would have gotten us there...articulate the workable plan and I'll stand behind you. Just don't stub your toe, or I'll get on APC and start throwing rocks!:D

Ummm OK.. what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? But I'll bite. We make more than FAs or bag smashers, but less than the CEO. When compared to other companies, we make less than our peers, while most of them make more than their peers. Or did I miss something?

Slow;
What you are getting is an ACL that sees a lot more than you give him credit for!!!

First, the company needed us on board to run NWA as a subsidiary during this transition phase. That alone is huge. It allowed many things to happen that would have not happened otherwise. It allowed a more seamless transition to a post-SOC company.

Second, our pay is more than our composite hourly rate. If you look at the MIT data taken of the DOT Form 41 we are at the bottom in the terms of compensation as compared to our legacy peers. Em are the facts. What airlines still have some sort of pensions?
CAL, and AMR, so I will give you that adds to their costs, but I could give two hoots. We are talking in the ball park of 20K a year per pilots.

Third, in your response to the JV's. The language that requires our involvement in any JV, merger or Code Share is in our section one. When was it put there? Under which Chair's tenure? Those little morsels are the reason we need to be consulted.

I regress, IMO our management team, (top top that is, and our immediate leaders) see the intrinsic value of having the pilots on board. We bring value to any deal. They can see that. It really is not that hard to understand. With the LCC debacle as a cosign to what we are doing, investors that see pilots working with management are willing to invest in that company and at a lower risk rate (interest). That is a major bonus for the company, our leaders pocketbooks etc.

You want to talk about profitability. OK, we have made money in two quarters in the last seven years. We came really close to closing the doors. One thing I have done is look at airlines and their need to make money. I am not convinced that airlines need to be profitable to be in business. Every support company, and the banks are making a ton of money off of the airlines, through fees, interest payments, et al. Billions a year off of us alone. Would you kill that host, or just wink and not every time debt needs to be restructured? I know I would want my billions in interest over a 10 to 15 year period between the 11 filings. Even at 10-30 cents on the dollar, I am still in the black.
Point is that profit is good for the stake holder, and the employees, but does little for the corporations and people that really make money on airlines. Give the stake holders a few quarters every few years, and for the most part they are satisfied.
With all of the limitations, regulations etc, we are really a federal system without all of the perks. (Yes, this is a little TIC)

Your turn! :eek:

Gotta a pretty good laugh out this.

(Couldn't find a clip, but it's 17:00 minutes in and last for 30-40 seconds)

Hulu - Family Guy: Jerome Is the New Black - Watch the full episode now.