acl,

The problem with many is that their view is that C2K is the baseline, and anything short of that (plus upward adjustments for inflation that doesn't even exist according to the CPI), is deemed a failure. That worldview ignores 9/11, the current economy, and the trip through bankruptcy. I have news for you: WE ALL WANT C2K RATES PLUS ANOTHER 30% INFLATION ADJUSTMENT. Every single pilot WANTS that. What Slowplay and others articulate is what we've achieved in the real world. Comparing that to the world we all wished we lived in is a waste of keyboarding.

Furthermore, the C2K+inflation crowd NEVER articulates a plan to achieve those rates. They just blame the current ALPA leadership for not achieving them. Even worse, when given the chance to get involved (recent elections in ATL and SLC), many sit on the sidelines and don't even vote, much less run. Yet, they'll be right back on here whining about lack of results.

The answer is actually more obvious than you imply. The company is asking us to fly an aircraft with more seats and weight. Both of these entail increased responsibility on the pilots' part. So coming from the position of nothing for nothing, why should we fly something that's been changed and not expect the pay to change?

I want the company to succeed, but I also want to make sure that we aren't bearing an undue burden. In any negotiation, both sides should get something (idealistic isn't it). We get more pay and they get more passengers. Stop caving in as soon as the company says boo!

We live in a world where we have all the answers to any questions we might have on our Blackberry or IPhone. We think we deserve all the info we want when we want it. There are plenty of reasons why we don't get to see everything we want to see. It's not because they don't want you to know. Sometimes we just can't see that.

Really?

I agree with your other arguments and higher pay, but is it really a more stressful, higher workload, bigger responsibility, etc etc job to fly a 747 vs. a DC-9??? I don't think so either.

I read and respect your posts. But like it or not, with this--and any future generations--instant gratification is the expectation.

It's why the company feels the need to be on the first page of Orbitz searches, why many of us pay a very significant premium for a hand-held device to get information immediately, and why I'm peeved that the pizza isn't here in five minutes. Like it or not, it's here to stay.

I just took a look at section 3 of our PWA. I see an MD-88 rate. I don't see anything in there that says if you change the seating configuration, you change the pay. What section are you looking at?:confused:

BTW, management has occasionally pulled seats out when they reconfigure airplanes. What would your response have been if they tried to implement a pay cut along with that?

I agree that in negotiations both sides should (and do) get something. But there's nothing to negotiate here.

Not really, but it seems the pay tables are linked to the number of passengers. The 737-700 was grouped with the -800 because of the mission (high alt/international/Special Qual airports).

If there is a different way we decide who gets paid what, I would love to know.

First, I do not think anyone sees C2K as a baseline. They see it as where we were, and where we need to be. Pilot are frustrated because they do not see their union doing everything in their power to get there. I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying the effort is not being transformed in to a medium that the pilots can easily see. That is where the issue lie. Worse, than that, many of our fellow pilots I talk to wonder why they are always getting a sell job on the latest deal.

Even if you do not agree with the stance, the MEC must realize that they need to sell themselves and their efforts a little better to their customer, the pilot.

edit....see Dragon's forthcoming post. He says it better than I did.

Ok, at the risk of beating my head against a wall, why do we get paid what we get paid?

If the company decided to buy a super stretched 767 why should they get paid more than a regular ER? Oh that's right we have a special rate for the 765 category.

Why are we afraid of asking the company for this?