Nobody wants to ask for sick notes. The historical averages for sick leave usage are a cost in our contract. If you use a lot of sick leave because you are sick then that's what it is for and I encourage people to not fly sick.

If you use a lot of sick leave because you want to use "your discretion" then you are taking from your fellow pilots. I am sorry, but I don't like people taking compensation from me so they can use their "discretion". I don't see how that makes me a management wannabe. There is one pie to split up. If you take extra helpings at your "discretion" then there is less left for everyone else. So if that is your moral compass, I don't care what you think of me.

That is exactly what our management tried to extract from us two different times. They implemented this policy with the flight attendants. A management guy explained that the policy had been a success for the flight attendants. It was then explained to him that flight attendants don't control the throttles. End of discussion.

There's a misconception here that a couple of folks besides you have posted. ALPA is the collective bargaining agent for the membership. Part of the injunctive relief Delta got against ALPA included the statement:

If the union had lost control of its members and the members were operating contrary to the union's direction, other more severe remedies might be available to the court.

Another example is UAUA's most recent trip to the courts against ALPA for sick time usage. There was no "direct" evidence of ALPA involvement, but the Union along with 4 individual pilots were enjoined.

It would be a very unique set of circumstances where the union was held harmless for "measurable" individual actions. The story that you, Ferd, and New are relating is far different than that stated as fact by Captain Courageous...

Nevermind...................

I personally only call in sick when I am sick. I am not amongst the ranks of the "immoral commuters" either. :rolleyes: However, is your head in the sand enough to not know that guys will use it "at their discretion" from time to time?

It's going to happen and will happen unless you want to have a sick note policy. We should have other policies in place that won't make it advantageous for guys to use sick time and coming down with the "commute flu" instead. We are an airline that has a lot more commuters in place, and that is something that the people who create the policies and do the negotiations have to understand.

I understand, look I am in CVG so commuting issues are high on my radar too. Council 108 fully supported a resolution for the MEC to pursue the NWA commuting policy. I believe that this issue will improve with time, but some patience may be required in the short term. I know the MEC is engaged on this but Rome doesn't always get built in a day.

I am not stupid. I realize that people will sometimes use sick leave for purposes other than when they are sick. I just think that if people don't understand the costs associated with this, it is easy to create a culture where those that habitually abuse sick leave get to enjoy a good deal at the expense of their fellow pilots. In my view that would not be healthy for the pilot group. (no pun intended)

I am in your same camp, I never call in sick unless I'm actually sick and I live in base. But I will fight for those that live out of base and need better commuting policies. Until we can get those in place, the "commute flu" is our only true recourse.

The mentality that we MUST live in base and constantly move our families each time the company decides to play boggle with the bases/aircraft needs to be changed.

If you call in sick when you aren't sick...you are a thief, no better than the mgmt types discussion boards like this tend to bash so much.

If you don't call in sick when you in fact are (and DAL-S seemed to have a lot of them in earlier years) in order to be a "team player"...you are a jerk, who gets his other fellow pilots sick.

How hard is all that?

At every airline there are those who save their sick calls for when they can't commute in and therefore are prone to work while sick. My former airline people used short notice sick calls for bad commutes and sicactions after the company canceled open time, drops, moves, etc. 4 sick calls put your on termination warning. There was one CA at the former airline who was called in for a conference with chief pilot, hr, alpa and director of ops when he hit his 5th. But he lawyered up (outside of alpa) and ate their lunch as he had been repeatedly hospitalized and had paperwork to prove all 4 calls and proof that the CPO was notified. The lawyer belonged to his dad and they put in the paperwork to sue for harassment but in reality it was just to harass the company.

Slowplay...author of that tired old book ~ Denial.

Carl