Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Nobody wants to ask for sick notes. The historical averages for sick leave usage are a cost in our contract. If you use a lot of sick leave because you are sick then that's what it is for and I encourage people to not fly sick.

If you use a lot of sick leave because you want to use "your discretion" then you are taking from your fellow pilots. I am sorry, but I don't like people taking compensation from me so they can use their "discretion". I don't see how that makes me a management wannabe. There is one pie to split up. If you take extra helpings at your "discretion" then there is less left for everyone else. So if that is your moral compass, I don't care what you think of me.

Alfa,

Could you please explain to a "dense" guy (me) who cannot quite see how using sick leave takes money out of your pocket? To me, sick leave is a negotiated item for the duration of a contract. During the course of that contract using or not using sick leave does not take away anything from anyone or give anything to anyone for not using it. Once the contract is negotiated, the use of sick leave, in my book, is a moot point. It's a cost to the company of doing business.

I'm not condoning using sick leave for anything other than being sick. But I just cannot wrap my mind around how this is taking compensation away from anyone.

Denny

Denny Crane

01-24-2010 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 750593)

The Super Bowl is going to have a hard time stepping it up to this game. What a barn burner.

Ain't that the truth!! Should be a great Super Bowl.

Denny

Carl Spackler

01-24-2010 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 750386)

There is a direct linkage between corporate profits and sustained payrates.

We will extract more value if the corporation is or is projected to be profitable (there's more value to extract).

Here's what you refuse to see. We don't do the accounting, management does. All they need to do is show a loss around contract time and...sorry guys, we just can't afford a pay raise for you.

I'm sure management appreciates you doing their work for them.

Carl

forgot to bid

01-24-2010 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 750602)

Ain't that the truth!! Should be a great Super Bowl.

Denny

Kind of tired of booth reviews... especially if they called that a catch. Either way, here we go... pray for our MSY overnighting crews...

oh yes, icing the kicker. If it was me I'd have a guy standing within sight of the kicker acting like he's about to call a TO but doesn't.

WOW. Strong kick but a sorry way to end a great game with questionable penalties. Bummer.

Sorry Favre, you should've just run 5 more yards! Oh well, you're still the best. Big time congrats to MSY except Bush*.

*We don't cheer for USC players in the FTB house.

newKnow

01-24-2010 06:21 PM

Yes!!!! Goodbye Bret Favre. Until you reck havock with the league next year. :cool:

Jack Bauer

01-24-2010 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 750606)

BINGO we have a winner!

slowplay

01-24-2010 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 750598)

Could you please explain to a "dense" guy (me) who cannot quite see how using sick leave takes money out of your pocket?

You are looking at it correctly for a snapshot in time. During the term of any contract there is minimal impact (very minor profit sharing, premium pay, and potential operational disruption costs). During the negotiation for the next contract it is a big deal (our 1113 case, for example). Management showed total sick leave costs (total pilot pay hours) that were way out of sync with the rest of the industry. When sick leave was modified, the total costs went down over 25% year over year (close to industry), which wasn't because of the change in sick pay, but because the change in the number of pilots calling in sick. That change in sick pay cost every pilot that needed the old hours and full vice 75% pay. For those that used sick pay as "platinum" days, there was no change.

Did the change in pay cause pilots to get sick less or fly sick more? That's a different discussion, but our LTD rate is closer to industry norm now, which is an indicator of behavioral changes.

Sick leave is just one component of our compensation package, but it is costed just as medical benefits, retirement, pay, and rules/rigs are costed.

Carl Spackler

01-24-2010 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 750460)

There's a misconception here that a couple of folks besides you have posted. ALPA is the collective bargaining agent for the membership. Part of the injunctive relief Delta got against ALPA included the statement:

If the union had lost control of its members and the members were operating contrary to the union's direction, other more severe remedies might be available to the court.

Another example is UAUA's most recent trip to the courts against ALPA for sick time usage. There was no "direct" evidence of ALPA involvement, but the Union along with 4 individual pilots were enjoined.

It would be a very unique set of circumstances where the union was held harmless for "measurable" individual actions. The story that you, Ferd, and New are relating is far different than that stated as fact by Captain Courageous...

You can't get relief from pilots using what is IN THEIR CONTRACT.

Man you can really contort yourself into some odd shapes in defense of your ill informed positions.

Carl

newKnow

01-24-2010 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 750592)

Man you write way better than I do.

Carl

That's from having two school teachers for parents and lots of butt whoopings. :D

Carl Spackler

01-24-2010 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 750587)

That is a little harsh. I'll bet he is one of the guys you look forward to fly with if you actually met him.

First beer is on me Carl...

And the rest are on me.

Carl