Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-12-2008, 01:41 PM
#3471
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Fly4hire
Also I don't think there will be displacements into the DC9 (Bastian/Haustein) said at NALPA MEC meeting no furloughs)
12-12-2008, 01:44 PM
#3472
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Hawaii50
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be too hard on the junior DL guys. Most are probably raising families trying to get some stability in their lives and now the company pretty much has free reign screw with people.
I'm not junior but the predominant feeling is that a lot more fencing was required to let the dust settle without a wholesale disruption of lives. Especially on the 757/767, 76ER categories. We see displacements from larger equipment on the horizon as new categories come in, less pay, indefinitely delayed left seat upgrades, possible commuting etc. The biggest thread on the DALPA forum is titled "How badly did you get screwed?" Guys on both sides should be able to vent and hopefully move on from there.
I'm not junior but the predominant feeling is that a lot more fencing was required to let the dust settle without a wholesale disruption of lives. Especially on the 757/767, 76ER categories. We see displacements from larger equipment on the horizon as new categories come in, less pay, indefinitely delayed left seat upgrades, possible commuting etc. The biggest thread on the DALPA forum is titled "How badly did you get screwed?" Guys on both sides should be able to vent and hopefully move on from there.
i dont know what will happen but dont we have something in the contract that pay protects you on your current aircraft in the event of a displacement? I cant remember if that was just a NWA agreement or if it was in the Joint agreement. I think it was a 36 month protection. Anyone know?
12-12-2008, 02:05 PM
#3473
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Lifeisgood
What's the alternative in the F18 crash? Should have he stayed with the plane? He did the right thing to survive and fight another day and protect your and mine freedoms. And just because he is in the military he is a hero enough for me.
Originally Posted by Lifeisgood
DC-9 makes good pilots!
Carl
12-12-2008, 02:07 PM
#3474
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,839
Originally Posted by Hawaii50
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be too hard on the junior DL guys. Most are probably raising families trying to get some stability in their lives and now the company pretty much has free reign screw with people.
I'm not junior but the predominant feeling is that a lot more fencing was required to let the dust settle without a wholesale disruption of lives. Especially on the 757/767, 76ER categories. We see displacements from larger equipment on the horizon as new categories come in, less pay, indefinitely delayed left seat upgrades, possible commuting etc. The biggest thread on the DALPA forum is titled "How badly did you get screwed?" Guys on both sides should be able to vent and hopefully move on from there.
I'm not junior but the predominant feeling is that a lot more fencing was required to let the dust settle without a wholesale disruption of lives. Especially on the 757/767, 76ER categories. We see displacements from larger equipment on the horizon as new categories come in, less pay, indefinitely delayed left seat upgrades, possible commuting etc. The biggest thread on the DALPA forum is titled "How badly did you get screwed?" Guys on both sides should be able to vent and hopefully move on from there.
This is the "trade off" aspect, and why I personally think the SLI wasn't a windfall for either side.
The SLI award could balance the attrition in one of two ways, the dynamic method with tall fences, which would have protected current flying in exchange for greater attrition credit soley for the NWA guys. Or the "lump sum" method, which front loaded a smaller amount of attrition up front, but now it's "Katie bar the door" when it comes to a majority of the seats.
Like it or not, that's the price that was paid to share in the attrition that NWA brought to the table. You couldn't have it both ways, otherwise it REALLY would be a windfall.
Ironically, there seems to be a fair amount of the DAL pilot group that would have done better with the NWA DOH plan. First, the guys in the middle that took DOH hits from NWA guys who actually wound up senior to them with a ratio, and the junior group that would have benefitted from 10 years of fences, not only for their 767/ER/-400 seats, but the narrowbody upgrade seats as well. Most NWA guys suffered a lost of relative seniority down the road anyway with this plan as well because of the difference in demographics, but this is something that is only soved with a dynamic list.
This is my last post on this subject. As it stands, every 777 that is delivered from now until the fence comes down will be argued over whether or not it's a "replacement aircraft". It's just they way it is. Don't spend your merger committee assesment money just yet.
It is what it is.
Nu
12-12-2008, 02:07 PM
#3475
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
i dont know what will happen but dont we have something in the contract that pay protects you on your current aircraft in the event of a displacement? I cant remember if that was just a NWA agreement or if it was in the Joint agreement. I think it was a 36 month protection. Anyone know?
Carl
12-12-2008, 02:20 PM
#3476
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 23
Can anyone here give the lowdown on your duty rigs and min staffing? Thanks.
12-12-2008, 02:22 PM
#3477
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by Lifeisgood
It'll work out. DC-9 makes good pilots!
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Those guys are good! Carl
12-12-2008, 02:59 PM
#3478
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by Ralphie
Of course they're going away eventually, but that's besides the point. They just have to move around, so that the current dc-9 right seaters can take advantage of their new effective seniority. With a displacement at Delta you can go to whatever your seniority can hold, and purge the junior guys to a crappier base/airplane, which are in abundance at our NWA subsidiary.
There's really no arguing this. During our recent AE, a bunch of CVG 73N guys/gals were sent packing because their spots were taken by CVG 767 pilots that couldn't hold CVG7ER and didn't want to move out of their base. Those 73 pilots were forced out to less desirable spots, ie, JFK maddogs. It is what it is, and I'm not arguing it's fairness. Just pointing out that this is what will happen on a grand scale after the SOC and airplanes start moving around.
There's really no arguing this. During our recent AE, a bunch of CVG 73N guys/gals were sent packing because their spots were taken by CVG 767 pilots that couldn't hold CVG7ER and didn't want to move out of their base. Those 73 pilots were forced out to less desirable spots, ie, JFK maddogs. It is what it is, and I'm not arguing it's fairness. Just pointing out that this is what will happen on a grand scale after the SOC and airplanes start moving around.
If been at DL since 01/01, I think I know how it works. As far as being displaced, them's the breaks. As far as displacements because the "Thunder Douglas" is going away, until oil spikes back up, that thing will be around. We should all be thankful that NW still has them to fill the 100 seat void until something else comes along.
As far as referring to NW as "our subsidiary, I refer to them as "Company" with ATC, hope that doesn't bother anyone!
12-12-2008, 03:11 PM
#3479
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Ralphie,
Spaceman is that you?
Spaceman is that you?
12-12-2008, 03:27 PM
#3480
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Moved up to the M88 from the 767
Posts: 193
Originally Posted by Lifeisgood
Ralphie,
I am very junior too.
Life is all about understanding the alternatives..
What's the alternative for DC-9 drivers displacing us? Not to move airplanes - no, that's the business, "they should have put us 3000 numbers higher on the list (because we belong to generation "success" who never worked for anything in their lives)" - no, not fair. ...
- what are you talking about man? Don't confuse a benign point of discussion or a complaint with a sense of entitlement. I'm not naive enough to think that after a merger of over 12000 pilots that I'd be able to avoid a displacement as a junior wide-body guy. Just saying I don't like it ;-)
CVG76 pilots displacing CVG73 pilots? That's because they are more senior. How else would you suggest things should happen? Without telling our execs how to run the business in an empty airport.
- Go read it again dude, I said that was how it worked. I have no problem with it.
What's the alternative in the F18 crash? Should have he stayed with the plane? He did the right thing to survive and fight another day and protect your and mine freedoms. And just because he is in the military he is a hero enough for me.
- Missed the point completely here. I was just saying that all the stuff we discuss on this board is quickly put into perspective after seeing a report like that. Horrible.
We got to think more about us as a group, not individually. Stay together and when time comes let's take a good contract.
- Hard to do right now. Looking at a displacement of base and airplane at best, and a furlough at worst. But I'll try.
It'll work out. DC-9 makes good pilots!
- Like all of you I'm sure, I'm already a great pilot.
I am very junior too.
Life is all about understanding the alternatives..
What's the alternative for DC-9 drivers displacing us? Not to move airplanes - no, that's the business, "they should have put us 3000 numbers higher on the list (because we belong to generation "success" who never worked for anything in their lives)" - no, not fair. ...
- what are you talking about man? Don't confuse a benign point of discussion or a complaint with a sense of entitlement. I'm not naive enough to think that after a merger of over 12000 pilots that I'd be able to avoid a displacement as a junior wide-body guy. Just saying I don't like it ;-)
CVG76 pilots displacing CVG73 pilots? That's because they are more senior. How else would you suggest things should happen? Without telling our execs how to run the business in an empty airport.
- Go read it again dude, I said that was how it worked. I have no problem with it.
What's the alternative in the F18 crash? Should have he stayed with the plane? He did the right thing to survive and fight another day and protect your and mine freedoms. And just because he is in the military he is a hero enough for me.
- Missed the point completely here. I was just saying that all the stuff we discuss on this board is quickly put into perspective after seeing a report like that. Horrible.
We got to think more about us as a group, not individually. Stay together and when time comes let's take a good contract.
- Hard to do right now. Looking at a displacement of base and airplane at best, and a furlough at worst. But I'll try.
It'll work out. DC-9 makes good pilots!
- Like all of you I'm sure, I'm already a great pilot.
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