Sure - that often happens. C2K was a massive raise right off the bat, then incremental increases. Of course, POS96 was a pay cut right off the bat, and then flat line. The economy really does matter.

As for a COLA, I've wanted that ever since I got here. I think its ridiculous that we've never had one built in. This industry is so tilted toward management, and without a decent COLA, there is no incentive to EVER settle. Contract negotiations drag on for years and years, and the retro check never quite makes up for the extensive delay. A COLA could help that situation, imo.

 

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He shouldn't, he should be making $3000 and the DC9 fo should be making $2002. I agree with you!

 

As soon as you figure that out, maybe you can help me with a few other questions:

What's another word for Thesaurus?
If you throw a cat out a car window does it become kitty litter?
Why is abbreviation such a long word?
If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?
When it rains why don’t sheep shrink?
Why do kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

 

Good example of different priorities for different folks. With 30 in 7 and 1000 annual max hours, I don't have a problem at all with a 28 hour 4-day domestic trip.

As an example, let's take a rate of $160/hr. Let's assume the average duty day was 10 hours on that 4-day trip. That means the trip would pay $6400. Yeah, you'd work your butt off for four days. But if you have 3 of those trips in a month (that would basically be an 84 hour month), then your monthly pay would be $19,200 and you'd have 19 days off in a 31 day month! If that was your monthly average, then your annual pay would be $230,400. Basically back to C2K wages, but with more work on your duty days. That's a compromise I could certainly live with. I realize that your mileage may vary.

Okay, I know I'm dreaming. But we may need some out of the box thinking to get this profession back on track. I would certainly say that 40%+ pay cuts, doing away with promised retirements, and outsourcing massive amounts of mainline flying would fall into the "out of the box thinking" category. I'm just sayin'... you know, what's good for the goose... and all that.

 

You can certainly cherry pick a couple of situations like that and make that case. But when you look at the history of airline pilot compensation over several decades, was C2K really a "massive raise"? In other words, if you look at what the career typically has been worth over that several decade period and factor in inflation, it looks to me like C2K was just a course correction that needed to be made to get it back on track. I guess it depends on how you look at it and how much you value the profession.

I'm not trying to pick on you, Pineapple. (Get it? PICK the Pineapple? ) I understand what you're saying. I just don't really agree that C2K was an inappropriate pay level for us and I don't agree that it was totally because we were in an up cycle in the industry.

 

 

I agree with Scambo: both are underpaid. I think that was your point. As for the degree to which one is underpaid relative to another, it has to do with the size of the aircraft. The stuff about naps and touching controls, which is not pertinent, I assume was meant in jest.

You find a way for the 777 F/O to take his 6-hour nap at home, and then, maybe...

 

but it's a very small elephant

 

I'm glad my response could help broaden your horizons!

Your little dig about customizing the statitstics, why don't we simplify it to your worries about profitability.

Which post-deregulation decade had the largest percentage of airline capacity operating in bankruptcy protection or liquidating through the bankruptcy or commercial processes?

What was the total profitability of the US airline industry in each of the post deregulation decades?

Maybe you'll see that it really is the case that this post 9-11 period has been a lot worse...but I'd hate for reality to get in the way of your quest!

btw, we really do ultimately want the same thing.

 

We could help fix this by paying everyone a :30 min credit for each leg flown to cover time we spend on pre and post flight duties. This would benefit all, but the DC9 and Md88 pilots would see the biggest gain.

Or just go to a 6hr min day for every calendar day you are at work with an exception of 4hrs min if your last day ends prior to 10 AM.