Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 811698)

I think you have made yourself quite clear. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I do not agree. If we had not taken a 42% pay cut, lost our pension, and had thousands of our jobs outsourced, then I would agree that the market could determine to some degree what kinds of improvements we might get. But we are where we are. That's reality.

One can bury his head in the sand and pretend those massive, unprecedented cuts didn't happen... or resign himself to the idea that what we do has significantly less value to society than it historically has had. Just don't expect me to sign on to that way of thinking. I have way too much respect for this profession and for what we do and, especially, for the hopes and dreams we and our families all had when we entered this career.

They can try to sell me this bean counter bull crap all they want, but I'm not buying it. It just doesn't pass the common sense test when you put our costs into perspective with everything else in this industry. In 2008 when fuel prices went through the roof, they couldn't raise ticket prices fast enough. And what do you know... people didn't stop flying! But if pilot costs just went back up to the same level they've always been at... well no, that's different... couldn't possibly do that without bankrupting the company.

And then there's all those bag fees they've been able to push onto our customers. Way more than what pilots cost. And people are still flying. How is that? Maybe we need a "pilot fee". I don't know... but I think our stance should be that pilot costs are not a variable expense. We cost what we cost, and it's management's job to figure out how to pay for it, just like they figure out how to pay for every other fixed expense. We (all employees, including us) are one of the most valuable assets to the company, not just a cost item to be kept as low as possible or outsourced to the lowest bidder. Talented management would recognize this. And I mean really recognize it... as in act on it, not just pay lip service to it.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 811807)

We can only hope so. Their product and service is horrible. We have started calling AMS Atlanta East since it seems to be trying to be just like Atlanta. I have waited to be parked for extended periods of time. Waited for ground power, waited up to 45 minutes for wheelchairs and watched the staff abuse our passengers. The switch to KLM there has been a disaster. The only good thing is that management is well aware of it.

Originally Posted by Nosmo King (Post 811849)

What I am hearing is that the NEW catering (Gat Gourmet) is mis-catering most of the flights causing delays, something that did NOT happen with KLM.

Side note - also hearing that KLM fuelers are being directed by DAL to do non-standard fuel loads on the A330. I find this interesting since KLM has been flying the 330 longer than fNW/DAL.

Originally Posted by vprMatrix (Post 811764)

:confused: Not sure what you are trying to find out but here are some good raw numbers. Scroll to the bottom of the page to get the Form41 data.

LINK.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 811862)

The union really needs to stop selling out the junior group. Look at where most of the savings to the company came from in 2005-2008. :(

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 811862)

The union really needs to stop selling out the junior group. Look at where most of the savings to the company came from in 2005-2008. :(

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 811878)

The biggest cost savings by a order of magnitude over anything else was the loss of the frozen pension plan. Estimated savings to the company in the 4 to 5 billion dollar range. Can't even compare to any thing else we gave up or lost. It hit the senior pilots far harder then anyone else.