Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-29-2010, 05:36 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Bebe Bus De L'Air Assistant Aerial Conveyance Facilitator
Posts: 351
Re GS:
Back when I was still on the ER in NYC and they were giving out GS's like candy, I'd get a call that would start with, "Hi, this is xxx from scheduling. You wouldn't be near the airport, would you?" Being a commuter, the answer would always be no. They'd say "No problem," and move onto the next guy.
One time, they asked how long it would take to get to JFK. I told them if I got on the flight, about 4 hours. They held the plane and even offered to PS me if I was going to have trouble getting on (I didn't).
The point is that the schedulers (at least a couple of years ago) understand that with short notice GS's, there's a reasonable chance you can't accept.
Back when I was still on the ER in NYC and they were giving out GS's like candy, I'd get a call that would start with, "Hi, this is xxx from scheduling. You wouldn't be near the airport, would you?" Being a commuter, the answer would always be no. They'd say "No problem," and move onto the next guy.
One time, they asked how long it would take to get to JFK. I told them if I got on the flight, about 4 hours. They held the plane and even offered to PS me if I was going to have trouble getting on (I didn't).
The point is that the schedulers (at least a couple of years ago) understand that with short notice GS's, there's a reasonable chance you can't accept.
06-29-2010, 05:44 AM
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
31L is open again at JFK.
06-29-2010, 06:12 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Actually, none of the LCA's threatened to quit. They simply wrote what is essentially a "white paper" on their position and included quite a bit a data from numerous studies on fatigue and other issues. When the DAL folks read it and gave no reason as to why they didn't want to change the policy, the meeting did get heated (according to a number of the LCA's I've spoken with that were in the room), but stayed professional. Heated, but professional.
The short answer is that the DAL way of doing things has the guys taking breaks every two hours or so. Besides the obvious issue of flight deck crew members making multiple trips from the cockpit to the rest area, our guys had studies that showed this is not optimal for getting rested. The other area is the DAL policy of the same crew performing both the takeoff and the landing. Since most of the fDAL trips were over and backs, it worked out great. One crew made the takeoff and landing going over, and the other crew did it coming back. Much easier to stay current. Our trips on the 744 and A330 are 10, 11, 12 and 13 day trips where you have crew changes on every leg. This makes it much more difficult to stay current if you are unlucky enough to always be the junior crew while the senior crew makes the takeoff and the landing, then moves on. It's resulting in a huge increase in the need for crew members to get requaled in the sim. Our guys' concern was not only the increased cost of the unnecessary training, but the problem of crews' proficiency.
There are a few other issues (read security and safety related) that don't belong on a public forum, but that is the short version.
Carl
The short answer is that the DAL way of doing things has the guys taking breaks every two hours or so. Besides the obvious issue of flight deck crew members making multiple trips from the cockpit to the rest area, our guys had studies that showed this is not optimal for getting rested. The other area is the DAL policy of the same crew performing both the takeoff and the landing. Since most of the fDAL trips were over and backs, it worked out great. One crew made the takeoff and landing going over, and the other crew did it coming back. Much easier to stay current. Our trips on the 744 and A330 are 10, 11, 12 and 13 day trips where you have crew changes on every leg. This makes it much more difficult to stay current if you are unlucky enough to always be the junior crew while the senior crew makes the takeoff and the landing, then moves on. It's resulting in a huge increase in the need for crew members to get requaled in the sim. Our guys' concern was not only the increased cost of the unnecessary training, but the problem of crews' proficiency.
There are a few other issues (read security and safety related) that don't belong on a public forum, but that is the short version.
Carl
06-29-2010, 06:16 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
In the few times I did JFK with the closure, it actually ran smoother than when 31L was open. I bet now that they added 25% to their runway capacity, they figure out how to increase delays by 40% again. That said, I won't know what to do when going down a smooth 31L.
Beat that runway into submission! Instread of posting a pic, picture someone with a whip.
Or be an RJ and roll to the end because of a 25 knot crosswind and cause a go-around and a mess for a 777 waiting for takeoff.
06-29-2010, 06:20 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The short answer is that the DAL way of doing things has the guys taking breaks every two hours or so.
06-29-2010, 06:29 AM
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Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
I think the 747 guys are right about the crew rest thing, but the Delta guys have the "not invented here" attitude about it. The whole thing sounds like a giant dick measuring contest between the 777 and 747 guys. I'd imagine there are near equal levels of bad behavior from both sides of the fight.
Last edited by nwaf16dude; 06-29-2010 at 06:32 AM. Reason: content
06-29-2010, 06:40 AM
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Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by tsquare
Source please. The reason I ask is that I know of no policy as to how the breaks are to be conducted. That being said, I have flown several trips recently with north crews, and I will say this: The idea of one FO doing the takeoff and the other doing the landing is a good one. I think that should be adopted. However the idea of the captain ALWAYS getting his choice of break (hence the middle one) is retarded. That means the landing FO would either be wiping sleep out of his eyes on approach or he would have been up for 4-6 hours before landing in the middle of the night. Just my 2 cents.
06-29-2010, 06:45 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
I think the 747 guys are right about the crew rest thing, but the Delta guys have the "not invented here" attitude about it. The whole thing sounds like a giant dick measuring contest between the 777 and 747 guys. I'd imagine there are near equal levels of bad behavior from both sides of the fight.
I read the rest break paper a couple years ago. While I thought it was suitable for filing in the circular file, I am sure someone has pride of authorship on it. Most likely a 777 LCA. That said, it is not a law. The crew can determine the rest break schedule on each leg to meet their actual rest needs.
Crew currency is another matter. It is the responsibility of the individual pilot and the crew as a whole to help the other pilots maintain their landing currency in order to avoid a sim trip. Sometimes that cannot be done - for example a reserve pilot (on the 777) can almost never avoid a trip to the sim, so his in-aircraft landing currency is justifiably sacrificed to enable the other pilots to maintain their currency.
On a lighter note, The market is looking rough today. S+P around 1046 - yikes. It could break either way.
06-29-2010, 07:08 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Don't even know what this means as none of it is true. There was almost no changes to relative positions after Roberts fences ended. But, whatever. Some people find it important to speak with authority about a situation they didn't even work in.
Anyone that is able to look at this fairly must see the glaring double standard in this one little example.
Carl
Anyone that is able to look at this fairly must see the glaring double standard in this one little example.
Carl
Really, you know that it is true. This is not a criticism, but just a statement of fact. More Green Book guys have gotten onto the A-330 and 744 Captains seats and some Red Book guys have either gotten pushed back or pushed out of their category. There have been numerous complaints filed by the Red Book guys for just that very reason. After the fences went down, it was inevitable and the merger has accelerated the process. I don't know why you are so defensive about this, it is not a criticism. If guys are locked out of seats due to an artificial fence, then they will get those seats when that fence is removed. More churn in the system will accelerate the process.
06-29-2010, 07:12 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,233
Quick question, gents:
Do the 320 FOs get a full type rating or SIC only?
Thx
Do the 320 FOs get a full type rating or SIC only?
Thx
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